Who saves? God or man?

[Wootah]

In all the Bible stories and then leading to discussing our own salvation - who saves? God or man?

[ttruscott]

What is "just" about consigning finite human beings to everlasting torture simply for believing the "wrong" things? That paints God as a being without the inclination or the ability to make moral distinctions, as in "one punishment fits all". Simplistic, categorical thinking that does not befit the Creator of the Universe.

Simplistic thinking is believing everlasting torture is simply for believing the "wrong" things...when the Christian fact is that their choice wasn't just a mistake but a deeply committed hostility to YHWH and HIS future plans for us based upon their understanding that just by claiming to be our Creator GOD HE has proven HE is a false god and the first (therefore the worst) liar. They knew hell was on the line and knew that the sinful elect would be saved from their rebellion while they themselves went to hell IF YHWH was proven to be our GOD, yet they ploughed ahead in full animus, fully sealing their own fate.

This commitment to sin against YHWH without any salvation for the lying false god by their free will created them as eternally sinful, a state they cannot change while GOD has sworn to never interfere with a free will decision or it is not free will any more. It is for self creating themselves as eternally demonic that they are banished from our reality so as to not be able to corrupt the heavenly state with their evil, not for believing the wrong things.

Simplistic thinking is believing that GOD has no inclination or ability to make moral distinctions, or that "one punishment fits all". It misses the fine tuning of moral responsibility so much, Heb 12:5-11, as to be a strawman argument.

Some people are saved already and some people are condemned already, Jn 3:16...not quite one size for all at all.

There is indeed one judgment for those who rejected HIS deity and HIS offer of salvation from sin. There is indeed one salvation for all who put their faith in YHWH and the Son and then chose to be sinful BUT there is a great distinction between being saved from the legal and the natural consequences of choosing sin and being judged.