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Willum
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 3:11 am  Satan asks God for forgiveness, now what? Reply with quote

So we have moved beyond rationalizations that Satan can't do that, he has free-will, and is supposedly smarter than you.

So Satan asks God for forgiveness.
What happens?

Does all that prophesy go away?
Are those people in Hell forgiven?
Would Satan be forgiven?

So many questions.
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 51: Tue Oct 17, 2017 4:29 am
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[Replying to post 49 by Justin108]

You have debunked nothing, this is a very disgusting post, and as has been maintained, different creatures have sex different ways, obviously whatever God did to Mary to conceive was at least one way a omnipotent creature has sex.
Since you can't say what he did, you have no leg to stand on to say he did not.
You are simply wrong.

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MPG Recipient Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 52: Tue Oct 17, 2017 4:54 am
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[Replying to post 51 by Willum]

Artificial insemination is the deliberate introduction of sperm into a female's uterus or cervix for the purpose of achieving a pregnancy through in vivo fertilization by means other than sexual intercourse.

You are arguing semantics of what the word "sex" include.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 53: Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:05 am
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I hereby request that any and all talk about sex and God impregnating or not impregnating Mary be moved to another thread.
This thread is supposed to be about Satan asking God for forgiveness and what follows afterward. NOT about how exactly Mary got pregnant.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 54: Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:20 am
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Willum wrote:

You have debunked nothing, this is a very disgusting post

What's disgusting about it? Does talking about sex make you uncomfortable?

Willum wrote:

obviously whatever God did to Mary to conceive was at least one way a omnipotent creature has sex.

Putting "obviously" in front of a claim does not make it true. Your argument is circular. You seem to suggest that it is logically impossible to reproduce without having sex. And when I point to an example of someone impregnating someone without sex, you simply redefine my example as "well it resulted in pregnancy so it was sex". Your argument is circular

Willum: all pregnancy comes from sex
Justin: X is an example of pregnancy without sex
Willum: no X is also an example of sex
Justin: why?
Willum: because it resulted in pregnancy and all pregnancy comes from sex

Theist: everything in the Bible is true
Atheist: X is an example of something in the Bible that is not true
Theist: no X is also true
Atheist: why?
Theist: because it says so in the Bible and everything in the Bible is true.

See why I said you give atheists a bad name? Your logic is as flawed as the theists you aim to debate.

If I used an example of a magic spell that made someone pregnant, you would simply redefine my example as sex because "that magic spell is also sex because it resulted in pregnancy".

Sex typically results in pregnancy, but contrary to your definition, sex is not defined as "that which makes you pregnant". It is possible for some forms of sex (homosexual sex) to never result in pregnancy. It is also possible to fall pregnant without having sex. If you artificially inseminate someone, this act is not sex.

artificial insemination
noun
medical : a medical process in which semen is used to make a woman or female animal pregnant without sexual intercourse


https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/artificial%20insemination

If your definition of sex were true ("sex is defined as that which results in reproduction") then the above definition of artificial insemination would be a paradox. Merriam-Webster should be enough to dismiss your entire argument. Clearly, according to the medical definition of artificial insemination, reproduction without sex is possible. Your argument is moot.

Willum wrote:

Since you can't say what he did, you have no leg to stand on to say he did not.
You are simply wrong.

For the umpteenth time, the burden of proof is not on me. You are the one claiming God had sex with Mary. You have the burden of proof.


Last edited by Justin108 on Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:57 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 55: Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:41 am
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rikuoamero wrote:

I hereby request that any and all talk about sex and God impregnating or not impregnating Mary be moved to another thread.
This thread is supposed to be about Satan asking God for forgiveness and what follows afterward. NOT about how exactly Mary got pregnant.


As per rikuoamero's request
https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=32906&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=20

Willum abandoned this thread, however, so I doubt he'll bother taking this discussion any further. He seems to enjoy making hit-and-run claims and then shifting the burden of proof to the opposition to disprove his claim. This is obvious in his desire to abandon the discussion for being "disgusting"

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 56: Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:45 pm
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So we have moved beyond rationalizations that Satan can't do that, he has free-will, and is supposedly smarter than all of us.

So Satan asks God for forgiveness.
What happens?

Does all that prophesy go away?
Are those people in Hell forgiven?
Would Satan be forgiven?

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 57: Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:18 pm
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It seems to me that Satan has a mental illness. A very severe one. I don't see how he could possibly be a sane being yet be so intent on evil unless he was mentally insane, which means that he can't help being evil.

Willum wrote:

So we have moved beyond rationalizations that Satan can't do that, he has free-will, and is supposedly smarter than all of us.

So Satan asks God for forgiveness.
What happens?


God is merciful and gracious. He will forgive. He has the power to forgive without the need for a blood sacrifice or for his son to die on the cross for us. (Just as he can save those under the age of understanding and the mentally incapable). In fact Hosea 6:6 tells us:

For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings

He can forgive Satan if Satan repents and acknowledges him just as he could forgive Charles Manson, Stalin or Hitler if they did. All one has to do is acknowledge God.

Remember Jesus forgave the thief on the cross next to him without the need for any blood sacrifice. All the thief did is acknowledge Jesus.

So all Satan has to do is do the same thing. There is nothing in the bible that says Satan can't do the same thing.


Willum wrote:

Does all that prophesy go away?


I guess God would have to do some tweaking. But then he did a lot of tweaking between the Old and New Testament.

Willum wrote:

Are those people in Hell forgiven?

I guess it depends on how merciful God is feeling. I guess it depends really on how loving and caring he is.

Willum wrote:

Would Satan be forgiven?


God is god. He can forgive whoever he wants to. His mercy is pretty much arbitrary as confirmed in this scripture:

Romans 9:15 "For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 58: Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:59 pm
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Justin108 wrote:

rikuoamero wrote:

I hereby request that any and all talk about sex and God impregnating or not impregnating Mary be moved to another thread.
This thread is supposed to be about Satan asking God for forgiveness and what follows afterward. NOT about how exactly Mary got pregnant.


As per rikuoamero's request
https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=32906&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=20

Willum abandoned this thread, however, so I doubt he'll bother taking this discussion any further. He seems to enjoy making hit-and-run claims and then shifting the burden of proof to the opposition to disprove his claim. This is obvious in his desire to abandon the discussion for being "disgusting"


Warning Moderator Final Warning

You have a 9 page rap sheet, and 97 reports of varying degrees of seriousness against you. This latest infraction of yours is a personal attack against another poster. This is your final warning to mend your ways.

Please review the Rules.


______________

Moderator final warnings serve as the last strike towards users. Additional violations will result in a probation vote. Further infractions will lead to banishment. Any challenges or replies to moderator warnings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 59: Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:19 pm
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Quote:
[quote="Justin108"]

(To Willum)

See why I said you give atheists a bad name? Your logic is as flawed as the theists you aim to debate.


Hey, I have been trying to help him with his logic. He just seems to be more concerned with restating his positions, than with whether they are logical. Wink Laughing

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 60: Sun Oct 29, 2017 10:01 am
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[Replying to post 57 by OnceConvinced]

Quote:
Quote bluethread
Quote:
Justin108 wrote:


(To Willum)

See why I said you give atheists a bad name? Your logic is as flawed as the theists you aim to debate.


Hey, I have been trying to help him with his logic. He just seems to be more concerned with restating his positions, than with whether they are logical. Wink Laughing



To OnceConvinced
See look at that! you give a perfectly reasonable and logical reply to a topic and those that will keep going on about a word used conversationally and off topic. When taken to the other topic, they retreat like rabbits, when the point they wished to make was a complete non-entity. Good grief - this is what constitutes proof of God to some, "See look, you used a word wrong! Therefore God created the universe!"
I never realized my conversational language had such power: I'd been using the word "inimical" wrong all my life! I wonder what strange parallel universes I caused God to create with that! Very Happy

To topic, which I would love to see addressed:
Quote:
It seems to me that Satan has a mental illness. A very severe one. I don't see how he could possibly be a sane being yet be so intent on evil unless he was mentally insane, which means that he can't help being evil.

Giving in to the illusion that Satan is real - how could God create something imperfect, as in someone insane? The God we speak of couldn't, obviously.

Quote:
He can forgive Satan if Satan repents and acknowledges him just as he could forgive Charles Manson, Stalin or Hitler if they did. All one has to do is acknowledge God.

But don't we all need Satan, Hitler and Manson to be in Hell for what they have done, in order to justify our own goodness? I mean, let's face it, with the allies closing in, Hitler probably was very penitent. They all acknowledge God (sv Stalin).

Quote:
Quote:
Willum wrote:

Does all that prophesy go away?


I guess God would have to do some tweaking. But then he did a lot of tweaking between the Old and New Testament.


I am not sure how I feel about an all-powerful/all-knowing ever-present God requiring tweaking. Could it be he is just pulling the Jehovah mind trick and forcing Satan into a role, or created a bugbear?

Quote:
Quote:
Willum wrote:

Are those people in Hell forgiven?


I guess it depends on how merciful God is feeling. I guess it depends really on how loving and caring he is.


My point in that was, if all sin was related to Satan's acts, and he recanted, wouldn't it be unfair to punish those he caused to sin, or at least those after Adam and Eve. So wouldn't a merciful God do something about that?

Quote:
Romans 9:15 "For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

Thank you, God can do it, all Satan has to do is wake up... which, according to constraints levied on him, he should be able to do.

There is no downside for Satan, only up...

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