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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 1: Fri Oct 27, 2017 4:41 am
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Jehovah's Witnesses and 1914

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JehovahsWitness wrote:

polonius.advice wrote:
They now insist that Jesus did return but he is invisible.

If so, how would they know he has returned?


If you are refering to JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES we believe know because of the signs Jesus provided to identify the time (see Mat 24, Lk 21, Mk 14) and we believe it started in 1914 because of our interpretation of bible chronology (see link below).

Learn more
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/books/bible-teach/1914-significant-year-bible...


JW

1. What exactly happened in 1914 that points to Matthew 24, Luke 21 and Mark 14?

2. Was 1914 unique in this regard? For example, Luke 21 mentions "wars and uprisings". In what way is 1914 unique in terms of wars and uprisings?

3. According to (my understanding of) Jehovah's Witnesses' claims, Jesus' rule from 1914 is hidden and behind the scenes. His rule is invisible to most of us. Did Jehovah's Witnesses predict that Jesus' rule would be behind the scenes from the start? Or did they initially believe that Jesus' rule will be clearly apparent to everyone, and only after 1914 when no Jesus was to be found did they change their conclusion to "well Jesus must be doing it in heaven where no one can see"?

4. Do you consider the possibility that your interpretation might be wrong and that Jesus did not return in 1914? Or do you believe that it is an indisputable fact that Jesus returned in 1914?

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 2: Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:41 am
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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses and 1914

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Justin108 wrote:

JehovahsWitness wrote:

If you are refering to JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES we believe know because of the signs Jesus provided to identify the time (see Mat 24, Lk 21, Mk 14 13)

JW

1. What exactly happened in 1914 that points to Matthew 24, Luke 21 and Mark 14?



If you read what I said we (Jehovah's Witnesses) believe that the scriptures provide information as to a "sign" that identify "the time" or the period (often refered to as "the last days") meaning a period of time that leads directly to the great tribulation (or the end of the system of things).

The date 1914 cannot in our opinion, specifically be pinpointed from this "composite sign".

as I said above

Quote:
"we believe [Christ's rule] started in 1914 because of our interpretation of bible chronology (see link below).

Learn more
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/books/bible-teach/1914-significant-year-bible... "


Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:12 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 3: Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:49 am
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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses and 1914

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Justin108 wrote:
3. According to (my understanding of) Jehovah's Witnesses' claims, Jesus' rule from 1914 is hidden and behind the scenes. His rule is invisible to most of us.


Not hidden from the faithful, but yes, this rule we believe remains unperceived by the majority of mankind although we (Jehovah's Witnesses) believe we should do our best to advertise the kingdom and educate the public as to what the bible says in this regard.


Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:10 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 4: Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:56 am
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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses and 1914

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Justin108 wrote:
4. Do you consider the possibility that your interpretation might be wrong and that Jesus did not return in 1914?


Anything is possible and of course when I was first looking into the matter, like most people new to the subject, I did not believe it. Now I am absolutely convinced beyond the shadow of a doubt that Jesus is indeed ruling in heaven.

I think it should be noted that most Christians believe Jesus is presently a king in heaven unseen by most humans, the only point of contention is "since when?" Some say "Since the beginning of time" other says "Since the Roman era (ie for 2000 years)" Jehovah's Witnesses say "Since 1914" but the ruling in heaven invisible to humans part is, I believe standard amongst most Christians. In any case if I ask most Christians "Do you believe Jesus *is* a king?" most Christians will say "Yes!" and if I ask "Do you believe everyone can presently see him ruling?" The will likely answer "No".

Justin108 wrote:
Do you believe that it is an indisputable fact that Jesus returned in 1914?


Well any fact can be "desputed" I once thought the fact that the earth was a globe was "undesputable" but the flatearthers have proved me wrong. Do I believe its a fact, yes absolutely!

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 5: Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:58 am
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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses and 1914

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Justin108 wrote:
Did Jehovah's Witnesses predict that Jesus' rule would be behind the scenes from the start?


That's not an easy question to answer because in the early days the bible students (as Jehovah's Witnesses were known prior to 1931) had an inaccurate understanding of how "Christ's rule" would be manifest.

CHRIST'S RETURN The early bible students, even from the early days believed that what they refered to then as "the second coming" of Christ would be invisible in nature. Note below the extract from a booklet written in 1877 by Charles Taze Russell (who would later become the first President of the Watchtower, Bible and Tract Society)



source: http://pastorrussell.blogspot.fr/[/b]


NOTE : The early bible students did not realize that Christ's (invisible) return coincided with the end of the gentile times (see below).

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 6: Fri Oct 27, 2017 1:39 pm
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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses and 1914

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[Replying to post 5 by JehovahsWitness]

THE GENTILE TIMES

Regarding changes of beliefs in connection with kingdom rule, as early as 1877 the early bible students (Jehovah's Witnesses) preached that 1914 woud mark the end of the "gentile times" (an expresssion based on a prophecy found in Daniel 4). They figured it would mark a time of great distress on earth and on this point they were absolutely correct, what they were wrong about however was what exactly that would mean for them.

click on the picture to enlarge


Jehovah's Witness errors:

As highlighted in the post # 5 above , the Jehovah's Witnesses have never expected Christ return to be visible and to this day they hold that Christ's return (now understood to be his "presence" or "parousia") was indeed invisible in nature. They were initially wrong however about when that happened (the early Witnesses they thought it had already happened in the 1800s).

Another reajustment was what exactly would happen in 1914. They knew it would be a significant year but some believed their work of preaching kingdom rule would end at that time and they would be taken to heaven. Others no doubt did think events would culminate in global manifestation of Kingdom power and the take over of human rule. The Watchtower representatives however remained cautious and speculative. When the expectations of many Witnesses proved wrong some disassociated themselves from the bible students while others recognized the need to reajust their view.

The Watch Tower, May 1, 1925 acknowledged:
Quote:
“Many of the dear saints thought that all the work was done. . . . They rejoiced because of the clear proof that the world had ended, that the kingdom of heaven was at hand, and that the day of their deliverance drew nigh. But they had overlooked something else that must be done. The good news that they had received must be told to others; because Jesus had commanded: ‘This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations: and then shall the end come.’ (Matthew 24:14)”



Further reading
http://pastorrussell.blogspot.fr/search?q=1914


Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Fri Oct 27, 2017 3:25 pm; edited 3 times in total

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 7: Fri Oct 27, 2017 3:00 pm
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JW...are you sure you want to get into the whole malarkey regarding prophecy again? You've got a rather poor record with that on this site. Now here you are saying that Christ fulfilled prophecy in a specific year but this time...it's invisible!
In other words, unfalsifiable, or to put it as plainly as possible...there's no way to check.
We're supposed to just take the Watch Tower's word that not only are their calculations correct (that's only one part of this whole prophecy business), but that Jesus did do what apparently he's supposed to do, but completely invisible.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 8: Fri Oct 27, 2017 3:21 pm
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[Replying to post 7 by rikuoamero]


Moderator Comment
Leave comments about somones personal record out please.
Please review the Rules.


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Moderator comments do not count as a strike against any posters. They only serve as an acknowledgment that a post report has been received, but has not been judged to warrant a moderator warning against a particular poster. Any challenges or replies to moderator postings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 9: Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:10 pm
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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses and 1914

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JehovahsWitness wrote:


Well any fact can be "desputed" I once thought the fact that the earth was a globe was "undesputable" but the flatearthers have proved me wrong. Do I believe its a fact, yes absolutely!


So you currently believe the earth is flat? Or are you simply saying that a spherical earth is disputed by flat-earthers.

Also, refresh my memory. Who is King, Jesus or Jehovah? Judging by the Lord's prayer, Jesus seems to have thought it was Jehovah, not himself. If that is the case, then no matter when one thinks he took the throne, that is refuted not only by reason, (there is no evidence that Jesus rules) but by Jesus himself in the Lord's prayer. "THY kingdom come".

And if Jesus preached "The kingdom of God is within you" how does the word "is" mean "but not until 1914?

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 10: Sat Oct 28, 2017 3:13 am
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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses and 1914

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Justin108 wrote:

4. Do you consider the possibility that your interpretation might be wrong and that Jesus did not return in 1914? Or do you believe that it is an indisputable fact that Jesus returned in 1914?

One of the moderators requested I rephrase this question to invite more broader participation than only Jehovah's Witnesses.

4. Do you consider the possibility that your interpretation of second-coming scripture might be wrong? Or do you believe that your interpretation of second-coming scripture is an indisputable fact?

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