Me too, and good looking girls

[2ndRateMind]

So, I suspect a little disengenuity in respect of all these women complaining about sexual harassment. Doubtless men could behave better. And doubtless men should.

But this business about beautiful actresses complaining about how men behave rings a few alarm bells with me. Fact is, these women are beautiful. Fact is, they earn their living out of that beauty. If they weren't beautiful, they wouldn't, most of them, have a job at all. And the reason that beauty has social traction on the world, the reason why they earn their inflated salaries, is because beauty is sexually attractive.

Seems these girls want to have their cake, and eat it too. If they don't want sexual harassment, they can forego the fashion and jewelry and make up and perfume and sundry that enhances sexual attractiveness. But if they are unwilling to do that, they shouldn't be altogether surprised if men hit on them, and want to have sex with them.

Best wishes, 2RM.

[Divine Insight]

But if they are unwilling to do that, they shouldn't be altogether surprised if men hit on them, and want to have sex with them.

Men hitting on women and wanting to have sex with them is not the same as men abusing a position of economic power demanding sexual favors in return for career success, or threatening to destroy a career if sexual favors aren't forthcoming.

Also, I personally have no respect for men who are solely interested in having sex with a woman devoid of any emotional or meaningful relationship. I personally have absolutely no interest in having sex with any woman just for the sake of having sex.

And by the way, just because society accepts, tolerates, or even embraces a particular behavior doesn't make that behavior moral. Keep in mind that society once accepted, tolerated, and even embraced slavery and the beating of slaves to keep them in line. Does that make it right?

[2ndRateMind]

[Replying to post 2 by Divine Insight]

I agree with all of this.

Nevertheless, if beautiful female actresses still want to be considered sexually attractive, and do everything they can to enhance that attractiveness, then they are going to get attention from men, even from men they might not wish to be attracted to them.

That's just part of the career they chose. If they don't like it, there are other careers.

Best wishes, 2RM.

[Divine Insight]

Nevertheless, if beautiful female actresses still want to be considered sexually attractive, and do everything they can to enhance that attractiveness, then they are going to get attention from men, even from men they might not wish to be attracted to them.

They can't be held responsible for what men are attracted to.

And besides, our society creates this situation by expecting this type of display from women. For example, many restaurants even have dress codes that they demand their waitresses follow. And these dress codes are often designed to make the waitresses appear to be sexually attractive. Almost all commercial industries use sex appeal in their ads for their products. And not just using women, but they use sexually attractive men as well. Men aren't the only creatures that are attracted by sexual desires.

I will agree that our society as a whole is to blame for the commercialization of sexual appeal, and as you point out this becomes extreme in the entertainment businesses. This not only takes advantage of attractive women, but it also discriminates against unattractive women. Same holds true for men as well. Although men can be "attractive" to women without necessarily being "handsome" in terms of being 'Beautiful". Women tend to be sexually attracted to "rugged looking men". So a guy that may not appear to be all that handsome to me or you may be quite sexually attractive to many women.

So it's a two-way street in that regard.

Although it no doubt is true that "beauty" in a woman is far more shallowly defined than "handsomeness" in a man.

None the less, the real problem in our society is not one of "sexual harassment" but rather it's one of "patriarchal superiority". The men tend to be the one holding the "purse" in the entertainment industry. So they have the financial power to hold over the women actresses.

I imagine if we lived in a matriarchal social economics the roles would be exactly reversed and we would see the rich controlling women taking advantage of the male actors. In fact, you can rest assured that this is currently happening in some situations. You're just not going to hear about those situation because if a man were to complain about it he would just be made the laughing stock of today's society and no one would take him seriously.

Our society is based almost entirely on patriarchal superiority. The mere fact that women are treated as "sex objects" is actually entirely the fault and result of how men view women. Men seem to have a one-track mind when it comes to women. Sex is all they can seem to think about.

It's shameful, but such is the case with the human species.

[2ndRateMind]

Nevertheless, if beautiful female actresses still want to be considered sexually attractive, and do everything they can to enhance that attractiveness, then they are going to get attention from men, even from men they might not wish to be attracted to them.

They can't be held responsible for what men are attracted to.

Indeed not, but they can be held responsible for deliberately exploiting it, and then complaining when the outcome doesn't quite suit them.

Best wishes, 2RM.

[JP Cusick]

So, I suspect a little disengenuity in respect of all these women complaining about sexual harassment. Doubtless men could behave better.

I do believe that men need to take the lead, and then the women will follow.

The women taking the lead is fine, but it is an insult to us men for being so depraved.

The problem is based on licentiousness and fornication and the glamorization of adultery, and the destruction of the institution of marriage.

What is needed is to imitate the world as displayed in this movie = Pride & Prejudice (1995)-Trailer.

That would be the ideal.

[Rufus21]

If they don't want sexual harassment, they can forego the fashion and jewelry and make up and perfume and sundry that enhances sexual attractiveness.

This sounds disturbing like the "If she didn't want to get raped she shouldn't have worn that short skirt" defense. Honestly, it is deeply upsetting that a Christian could say things like this.

First of all, you are reducing these women to mere objects. They are not simply "pretty things" that should expect to taken advantage of and abused. Many of them are very talented professionals who have worked very hard and studied their craft to achieve their level of skill. Many have had very successful theater careers. There is undoubtedly a degree of beauty involved, but it is not their defining characteristic. I am, by far, the most skillful employee in my company, but if it were judged on attractiveness I would be one of the worst. Would that be fair? What if your career was judged on appearance and not skill?

Secondly, nobody should ever expect unwanted, forced sexual activity as part of their job. Saying things like, "They knew what they were getting into" is just a way of excusing terrible behavior in the industry. Saying things like, "They should stop wearing all that jewelry" is just plain ridiculous. Trying to discourage molestation and rape by telling women to be "ugly" is a terrible strategy. What if your daughter's dream was to be an actress? Would you tell her to give up her dream or would you try to clean up the industry? Would you try to protect her from sleazy people or would you tell her to be ugly? What type of role model would you be for your children, and why would you not be that way for other people's children?

Third, even if they are exceptionally attractive, their success should not be based on promiscuous activity. That is just encouraging bad behavior and then rewarding it. Parts of the Hollywood movie/model industry are horribly exploitative. Do you want to punish the exploiters or punish the victims?

[Bust Nak]

[Replying to post 1 by 2ndRateMind]

There is a huge difference between sexual harassment and men hitting on women and wanting to have sex. It is how men hit on women and express the desire to have sex, and more importantly, stopping gracefully when it is clear the your attention is unwelcomed.

[JP Cusick]

[Replying to post 1 by 2ndRateMind]

There is a huge difference between sexual harassment and men hitting on women and wanting to have sex. It is how men hit on women and express the desire to have sex, and more importantly, stopping gracefully when it is clear the your attention is unwelcomed.

Perhaps it is time to change some of our terminology?

Instead of "hitting on a woman" we could try "making a pass" or "flirting" or seeking her consent?

For a man to "hit" on a woman is not the best choice of words - and words matter.

[2ndRateMind]

This sounds disturbing like the "If she didn't want to get raped she shouldn't have worn that short skirt" defense.

No one is condoning rape, or even sexual harassment, even of the sort the USA President Trump likes to boast of. At worst it's criminal, at best it's crass and ungentlemanly. But the fact remains that women go out of their way, and spend inordinate amounts of money, to appear sexually attractive. So, if they get advances from men they do not want relationships with, as well as men they do, it just goes with the territory, and should not be considered in any way astonishing.

Honestly, it is deeply upsetting that a Christian could say things like this.

I read nowhere in the scriptures that the eleventh commandment is 'Thou shalt be politically correct'.

First of all, you are reducing these women to mere objects. They are not simply "pretty things" that should expect to taken advantage of and abused.

On the contrary, I am insisting that women are persons, moral agents, who must accept the consequences of their actions.

Secondly, nobody should ever expect unwanted, forced sexual activity as part of their job.

Agreed. I never said different.

Third, even if they are exceptionally attractive, their success should not be based on promiscuous activity.

Agreed. I never said it should. Nevertheless, it tends to be that the most beautiful women, however talented or otherwise, tend to get the richest, most powerful husbands. I do not think this correlation is accidental.

To spell out the argument, women want to be beautiful to gain a wealthy and faithful spouse, who can and will support them through pregnancy, child-birth and child-rearing while their own economic prospects are impaired. And they are prepared to invest a lot of money in fashion, cosmetics, surgery, whatever, to achieve that beauty, and gain that spouse. And if they have or gain that (superficial) beauty, the inevitable result is that they will be subject to sexual advances from those they don't want, as well as sexual advances from those they do. And that is just the way the world is; you need to learn to take the rough with the smooth.

Best wishes, 2RM.