I Googled that phrase and came up with this.
https://www.google.com/#q=without+god+l ... no+purpose
This is what religious people are being taught by their leaders. So we have all these people walking around thinking that there is an empty hole inside them that can only be filled by god and without god there lives have no purpose or meaning.
The thing that strikes me as being strange is I have always regarded all religions as myth and I am not a believer of any of them, but at the same time I don't have this empty hole inside me they talk about. I have never felt that my life has no purpose or meaning and in fact all of the things that these religious people say I need don't ever even cross my mind.
There is so much interesting REAL stuff to learn that I am so busy reading, working or doing whatever I happen to be interested in at the moment to have time to even think about this hole I am supposed to have inside me that I can't find. If anything I need a bigger hole to fit all of the things that I occupy myself with, my hole runneth over!
Anyway, I started thinking about teaching people that nonsense and it struck me as being a cruel thing to do. It's tantamount to saying, hey there is something wrong with you (when there isn't) and then telling them that you have the cure.
The phrase snake oil salesman comes to mind.
Without God Life Has No Purpose
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Re: Without God Life Has No Purpose
Post #81I can not give a answer to your challenges because they are belligerent and hostile in ways that are unanswerable.OnceConvinced wrote: I notice you have not responded to any of my individual challenges. Perhaps it is because you can't justify your claim?
I know you would not agree with that assessment - but that is the reason.
I happen to love questions and challenges and I participate in these discussions on this forum because I like to explain my faith and to preach my doctrines, so I find it to be unsettling that you can make such outrageous challenges which can not be answered.
I really am not being obstinate nor defensive as I love to attack.
You said = What makes a Christian's purpose in life higher than mine?
My answer = Being a Christian is what makes it higher. ~ Duh.
The point is not about the people.OnceConvinced wrote:I don't see all these people you mention as worshipping the same god. In fact most of them would claim to worship different gods from each other. Some people would even claim they were worshipping false gods.JP Cusick wrote: For me I refer to the God of all humanity - by any name.
I keep talking about the God - while you keep harping on the people.
I do not care whatever those people claim - so why do you reference those other people?
You may see your self (or view me) as one of those people - but I certainly am not one of them.
This is not a democracy - it is not a majority or minority vote.
You ask a question like this - and how is anyone to answer it?OnceConvinced wrote:What has this got to do with whether ones purpose is more worthy than anothers?JP Cusick wrote: Knowledge is power - so correct knowledge gives greater power and potential.
If you are doing things wrong then that makes it a less worthy purpose. ~ Duh.
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Re: Without God Life Has No Purpose
Post #82I agree with this view, and it is not sound to view just one (1) God when every scripture including the Bible tells us that there are multiple Gods.Bust Nak wrote: Why ascribed omnipotence and omnipresence and omniscience in the first place? As multiple, non omnipotence, omnipresence nor omniscience gods make more sense then both of the above, if you are going with human reason.
The distinction is only in rank - as the Father God is the creator of the lesser Gods.
Satan the Devil is a type of God, just as each Angel is a type of God, and even Jesus said that people are Gods, see John 10:33-35
I expect that most people are just so use to using the word "God" as a name as if the name of God is "God" when the word is really a description.
More accurately God means the Creator or the Maker or the Father, and yet still not a proper name.
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Re: Without God Life Has No Purpose
Post #83If I am being belligerent and hostile then report me rather than making personal attacks. Hostility in particular is against forum rules. In fact those things I am seeing in your previous two posts to me.JP Cusick wrote:
I can not give a answer to your challenges because they are belligerent and hostile in ways that are unanswerable.
That is simply an unsupported opinion. You need to provide reasons why being a Christian makes it higher. Otherwise you are just preaching, not debating. And there ARE rules against preaching here.JP Cusick wrote: You said = What makes a Christian's purpose in life higher than mine?
My answer = Being a Christian is what makes it higher. ~ Duh.
Because they all believe in different gods. You have given no justification of why believing in a god makes your purposes higher.JP Cusick wrote: I keep talking about the God - while you keep harping on the people.
You were the one who first referenced them.JP Cusick wrote: I do not care whatever those people claim - so why do you reference those other people?
I am not one of those people. Like I said, I don't believe in any gods. Just because I don't believe in any gods does not make my purposes lower.JP Cusick wrote: You may see your self (or view me) as one of those people - but I certainly am not one of them.
This website is not a democracy either and forum rules state that you should back up your claims with evidence and reasoning, which you don't seem to be willing to do.JP Cusick wrote: This is not a democracy - it is not a majority or minority vote.
Perhaps it's best not to make claims that you can't justify with evidence or reason?JP Cusick wrote:You ask a question like this - and how is anyone to answer it?OnceConvinced wrote:What has this got to do with whether ones purpose is more worthy than anothers?JP Cusick wrote: Knowledge is power - so correct knowledge gives greater power and potential.
I don't see anything wrong about my purposes in life. In fact most of them I had when I was still a believer in God.JP Cusick wrote: If you are doing things wrong then that makes it a less worthy purpose. ~ Duh.
Society and its morals evolve and will continue to evolve. The bible however remains the same and just requires more and more apologetics and claims of "metaphors" and "symbolism" to justify it.
Prayer is like rubbing an old bottle and hoping that a genie will pop out and grant you three wishes.
There is much about this world that is mind boggling and impressive, but I see no need whatsoever to put it down to magical super powered beings.
Check out my website: Recker's World
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Post #84
Moderator CommentJP Cusick wrote: I can not give a answer to your challenges because they are belligerent and hostile in ways that are unanswerable.
Instead of saying that someone else is belligerent, please just report it.
Please review the Rules.
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Moderator comments do not count as a strike against any posters. They only serve as an acknowledgment that a post report has been received, but has not been judged to warrant a moderator warning against a particular poster. Any challenges or replies to moderator postings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.
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Re: Without God Life Has No Purpose
Post #85[Replying to post 76 by KenRU]
KenRU - Quote " "
" Is this to say that non belief does not have the power to influence and shape the way we consider the future?
If so do you have any evidence to support this assertion. "
How does this shaping of the future have meaning after death unless there is a future to observe, or else life really is just about 'what life is today' and no consequence is the responsibility of the dead.
However, understanding Christians, that which realize they have an eternal future can fully appreciate and understand the importance of their legacy. Because their attitude has to come from afar rather than, death has no meaning.
It's just a logical sequence of events.
But if you can give me a good substitute for God , this may answer the question of yet another, attitude .
However for it or be real, you at least have to believe it.
KenRU - Quote " "
" Is this to say that non belief does not have the power to influence and shape the way we consider the future?
If so do you have any evidence to support this assertion. "
How does this shaping of the future have meaning after death unless there is a future to observe, or else life really is just about 'what life is today' and no consequence is the responsibility of the dead.
However, understanding Christians, that which realize they have an eternal future can fully appreciate and understand the importance of their legacy. Because their attitude has to come from afar rather than, death has no meaning.
It's just a logical sequence of events.
But if you can give me a good substitute for God , this may answer the question of yet another, attitude .
However for it or be real, you at least have to believe it.
:
:
Live to give , Give to live ( love Jesus )
: I believe a mans spirit is more than just his imagination.
I believe in forever. That's true even without religion.(or man)
: Live to give, give to life, Forgive to live.
:
Live to give , Give to live ( love Jesus )
: I believe a mans spirit is more than just his imagination.
I believe in forever. That's true even without religion.(or man)
: Live to give, give to life, Forgive to live.
Re: Without God Life Has No Purpose
Post #86wannabe wrote:
How does this shaping of the future have meaning after death unless there is a future to observe, or else life really is just about 'what life is today' and no consequence is the responsibility of the dead.
However, understanding Christians, that which realize they have an eternal future can fully appreciate and understand the importance of their legacy. Because their attitude has to come from afar rather than, death has no meaning.
What a lovely surprise it will be if, post mortem, we can continue the conversations broken by death. Of course we cannot prepare for such an eventuality: if it happens it happens. As with all life with arms and legs we share a finite existence; we appear and we vanish like leaves on a tree. We can make the taste of existence as sweet as possible and help others in their ant-like activities. Or perhaps we are clockwork toys, amusing some invisible spectator until our machinery runs down.
Granting ourselves a divine purpose has the pleasantness of a strawberry tart. And why not if it makes the journey easier? We take pain-killers after all.
Re: Without God Life Has No Purpose
Post #87I did not mean that you were breaking the rules, and I did not mean it as a personal attack.OnceConvinced wrote:If I am being belligerent and hostile then report me rather than making personal attacks. Hostility in particular is against forum rules. In fact those things I am seeing in your previous two posts to me.JP Cusick wrote: I can not give a answer to your challenges because they are belligerent and hostile in ways that are unanswerable.
You asked a direct question which I could answer - and so I gave my direct answer.
I meant that you are being hostile to God, and hostile to Christianity, and that hostility is insurmountable for me, as in = "I don't believe in any gods"
I was not claiming that you were being hostile to me myself, but clearly I did not word that very well and it came out inaccurate.
You say = "This sounds like an opinion ... " - well yes it is an opinion, and opinions have value, and without opinions then there can not be much of a discussion.
Surely since you are objecting to opinions then you must view your own comments as superior to opinions = as in your words are the facts and the truth but they are not your own opinions - and that is breaker of a discussion.
In my view you have already formed your own opinion in granite that you do not like the notion of God, do not like Christianity, and that is a hostility to God which interferes with any discussion about God, and it destroys my ability to give any answer or counter argument to your hostile attitude to God.
Your fight is with God and that is not my fight to step into.
Being hostile to me is not a big deal to me - but I do understand hostilities to other members as being against the forum rules - and I was not accusing you of that, nor did I mean to have my comment appear that way - it was my failure to express my words more accurately.
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Re: Without God Life Has No Purpose
Post #88How can I be hostile to a being I don't believe in?JP Cusick wrote:
I meant that you are being hostile to God,
You seem to want to judge me on behalf of this God of yours. Do you have that right?
I have no hostility towards Christianity. Why would I? I loved being a Christian and I loved the people. Still do. Many of my family and friends are Christians.JP Cusick wrote:
and hostile to Christianity,
My goal is to challenge claims that seem outrageous, that's all. I object to the fact that you place my purposes lower than that of someone who believes in gods and would like you to justify that claim. If you see that as hostility, then I find that bizarre.
Why on earth would you see that as being hostile? I simply don't believe in gods. There is no intent to be hostile towards anyone in those words.JP Cusick wrote: and that hostility is insurmountable for me, as in = "I don't believe in any gods"
JP Cusick wrote:
You say = "This sounds like an opinion ... " - well yes it is an opinion, and opinions have value,
You seem to be making these opinions as though they are facts not opinions. You even put in words like "Duh" as if they are facts that everybody should know. But thank you for admitting they are your opinions.
It's a pity then that you refuse to continue the discussion by backing up your claims.JP Cusick wrote: and without opinions then there can not be much of a discussion.
I'm fine with people making opinions and agree there would not be much discussion without them, but as per forum rules they should be at least backed up with reasoning, not just preached as facts. When I make opinions, I do attempt to apply reasoning as to why I have those opinions.JP Cusick wrote:
Surely since you are objecting to opinions then you must view your own comments as superior to opinions = as in your words are the facts and the truth but they are not your own opinions - and that is breaker of a discussion.
You really have misread me drasticallyJP Cusick wrote:
In my view you have already formed your own opinion in granite that you do not like the notion of God,
1) I love the notion of God. I wish there really was a god. I'd love there to be a being that loves me, cares about me, wants what's best for me, has a plan for my life, has the whole world in his hands and want's me to live in Paradise for all eternity. Who wouldn't want that? So no, I don't dislike the notion of God at all and can't see why you would come to that conclusion.
2) The opinion I have formed through years of experience, is that there is as much purpose in life without a god as there is with and I don't see why a belief in a god would make ones purposes higher. I would be willing to consider reasons why belief in a god would make ones purposes higher. I'm still waiting for you to provide some.
I would not say I don't like Christianity. I was one for over 30 years of my life and loved being a Christian. What I don't like is fundamentalist Christianity and when Christians make claims as though they are facts, especially when I know the claims to be false. I'm not saying for certain that your claim about believers purposes being higher is false, but it very much does appear that way to me.JP Cusick wrote: do not like Christianity,
Nope, no hostility towards God. It would make absolutely no sense at all for an atheist to be angry at god. That would mean they were actually an angry theist, not an atheist.JP Cusick wrote:
and that is a hostility to God
I think you are seeing hostility where there is none. Or perhaps you have bitterness towards me that is tainting your view?
For someone who seems to be attempting to speak on God's behalf, I find that rather bizarre. Are you speaking for God or not? Do you not have the holy spirit in you?JP Cusick wrote:
which interferes with any discussion about God, and it destroys my ability to give any answer or counter argument to your hostile attitude to God.
Do you think Jesus's abilities would have been destroyed simply because he came across people who may have been hostile towards them?
I think you need to let God get upset for himself, don't you? It is not up to you to get your tail in a twist for God.
I have no fight against beings I don't believe in, just as I don't have a fight against fairies or Lochness monsters. My problem is with you alone and claims that you have made, not claims that any god has made.JP Cusick wrote:
Your fight is with God and that is not my fight to step into.
Who am I being hostile towards? You or God?JP Cusick wrote: Being hostile to me is not a big deal to me
It's you that I am debating here with, not God. If God wants to debate with me, then let him come on here and start one, but my debate is directed at you, not any god.
As far as I'm concerned I'm not being hostile towards anyone, especially not any imaginary being. I am simply challenging unsupported claims you have made. If you feel I am being hostile to you, then please click the report button on my posts and report them to the moderation team.
I do not believe that any god sees me as hostile, nor do I believe I have offended any god. I believe that it is you that is being offended and you are trying to take your sensitivities and transferring them onto your god.
You are still accusing me of being hostile, not only to you but also to some god that I don't believe in. I can assure you there is no hostility coming from me. Perhaps it is you that is feeling hostile?JP Cusick wrote:
- but I do understand hostilities to other members as being against the forum rules - and I was not accusing you of that, nor did I mean to have my comment appear that way - it was my failure to express my words more accurately.
Society and its morals evolve and will continue to evolve. The bible however remains the same and just requires more and more apologetics and claims of "metaphors" and "symbolism" to justify it.
Prayer is like rubbing an old bottle and hoping that a genie will pop out and grant you three wishes.
There is much about this world that is mind boggling and impressive, but I see no need whatsoever to put it down to magical super powered beings.
Check out my website: Recker's World
Re: Without God Life Has No Purpose
Post #89JP Cusick wrote:
I meant that you are being hostile to God, and hostile to Christianity, and that hostility is insurmountable for me, as in = "I don't believe in any gods"
Your fight is with God and that is not my fight to step into.
This reminds me of the hilarious account in Genesis 32 where Jacob has a wrestling match with God himself.
"22 That night Jacob got up and took his two wives, his two female servants and his eleven sons and crossed the ford of the Jabbok. 23 After he had sent them across the stream, he sent over all his possessions. 24 So Jacob was left alone, and a man wrestled with him till daybreak. 25 When the man saw that he could not overpower him, he touched the socket of Jacob’s hip so that his hip was wrenched as he wrestled with the man. 26 Then the man said, “Let me go, for it is daybreak.�
But Jacob replied, “I will not let you go unless you bless me.�
27 The man asked him, “What is your name?�
“Jacob,� he answered.
28 Then the man said, “Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel,[a] because you have struggled with God and with humans and have overcome.�
Possibly the funniest passage in the Bible.
How can someone be hostile to Hamlet or Yahweh? We can examine their fictional characters and commend their writers for their creation or find flaws in their genesis.
But we are not hostile -just critical. The Biblical God, angry and spiteful as he is depicted, would not tolerate hostility for too long. There might be a few pillars of salt. But thankfully ogres are not able to step out of fictional pages. Phew! Here we do pleasant battle with ordinary folk and unlike Jacob we don't wrestle with God and risk a name change. A sense of humour helps in dealing with God and his ways.
Re: Without God Life Has No Purpose
Post #90Your belief only affects your self - it has no effect on the reality of God.OnceConvinced wrote: How can I be hostile to a being I don't believe in?
You seem to want to judge me on behalf of this God of yours. Do you have that right?
And to judge people and events and judge things on the basis of God is the only right way to judge.
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I agree that people need to have a sense of humor with God and with the Bible, but very few would ever do that.marco wrote: A sense of humour helps in dealing with God and his ways.
I learned it years ago when I read the book of Jeremiah in the paraphrase Bible called "The Book" because the accounts of Jeremiah is funny in a strange way as if God is being facetious and self-effacing.
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