Where was god????

Donray · Post by **Donray** » Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:11 pm

SUTHERLAND SPRINGS, Tex. â€” The massacre here that killed more than two dozen people â€” the youngest of them just 18 months old â€” occurred amid an ongoing â€œdomestic situationâ€� involving the gunman and his relatives, at least one of whom had attended the church, law enforcement officials said Monday.

People must have been prying to God then they were killed in his church.

Why did God allow this and not listen to prays?

Donray · Post by **Donray** » Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:59 pm

ttruscott wrote: Only sin causes suffering and death, Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death...
No one who has never sinned ever suffers or dies, (except our saviour), Ezekiel 18:4...The soul who sins will die. To die is just the ultimate of suffering so death contains all suffering, that is, to say the wages of sin is death is to also say the wages of sin is suffering and death.

People suffer for two reasons, 1. as a judgement against their sinfulness, with no redemptive nor intent to change the person's behavior. 2. As a corrective, redemptive, and rehabilitative discipline to cause the person to reevaluate their actions (character) so as to encourage a change of behaviour, as seen in the painful discipline of every child of GOD, Heb 12:5-11.

People die for two reasons also, 1. as a judgement against their sins and 2. to put a finality to their life after they have repented, been redeemed and brought to righteous holiness, so they may leave this place of suffering as it is of no further use to them.

John the baptizer had the Holy Spirit while still in the womb so I do not hold that an infant death proves the person was unredeemed. But even a miscarriage can be attributed to sin, NOT through Adam, which I recon is a blasphemy, but because the foetus can conspire to murder and even try to act upon it as Jacob and Esau were trying to crush each other to pieces to kill each other within their mother's womb.

So, the 18 moth old baby sinned? You are sick if you think an 18 month baby did something so immoral that it deserved to be killed.

Tell me the parent of the baby did to suffer the baby's death. They were in church worshipping your god and yet your god determined they needed to suffer. So, why don't you tell use what they did to deserve to suffer by having your god allowing their to die because your god determined the baby was so immoral?

Donray · Post by **Donray** » Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:07 pm

2timothy316 wrote:
Donray wrote:
2timothy316 wrote:
Donray wrote: [Replying to post 5 by 2timothy316]

So this person knows why his god ignore him. Is this the reason god ignores all prays?

God does not care currently to save anyone from suffering. He wants them to suffer even though he could stop it.

Do I have everything correct?
No only does God want to stop it but He will as soon as He can save as many people that wish to turn from their wicked ways as possible. Do you accept that mankind are failures at ruling themselves? That the main ruler of this world Satan, needs to be put down and everyone that shares in his villainy? Would you like hear of the future that is planned? Would you like to hear what is going to happen to not only those victims of yesterdays crimes, but all crimes ever committed?

If you answer is yes, then I have some Good News to share.
If your answer is no and think mankind can dig themselves out these mass shootings on their own then I will leave you to find whatever you think will solve the problem.
As people said in this thread god does not give a damn about suffering currently.
So I guess your answer is a no. That Satan is right. Mankind is only concerned with what God can do for them. Do you not care about what kind of person He is but only care about what God can do for you?

Are you more concerned about what people say? Or are you more concerned with what the Bible, the word of God says? Do you only hear what you want to hear?
Why did god create Satan in the first place?
Satan wasn't always the rebel he is now. John 8:44 says that "he did not stand fast in the truth". Meaning he once was one of God's spiritual sons and obeyed God. But now Satan works against God. Trying to make Him look bad by placing all of his and mankind's wrong doing as Jehovah's fault. Are you falling for this? Now, who do you want to follow?

You failed to answer why your god create Satan? You must admit that an all knowing god would have known he created Satan. God knew that his spiritual son was going to go bad when he created him. I guess you are also saying your god is a foul and don't know what he creates.

Your god is so weak he could not destroy Satan but he can kill babies in a flood?

Prince · Post by **Prince** » Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:45 pm

As it is written; "The Lord is the God of the living not of the dead. He is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob." (Jesus)

The Lord is not the God of the dead who are sinners.

"The Lord is near to everyone who calls upon Him, who calls upon Him in truth."

God's word is truth.

" I the Lord speak the truth, I say what is right. "

"Speak the truth to one another.."

brianbbs67 · Post by **brianbbs67** » Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:46 am

You failed to answer why your god create Satan? You must admit that an all knowing god would have known he created Satan. God knew that his spiritual son was going to go bad when he created him. I guess you are also saying your god is a foul and don't know what he creates.

Your god is so weak he could not destroy Satan but he can kill babies in a flood?[/quote]

Free will is the answer you are looking for. We are given free will to do as we please. That dictates little to no interference.

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:49 am

[Replying to post 12 by Donray]

QUESTION: Did God create Satan the Devil?

God did not create Satan. The word "satan" means opposer or resister. God did not create someone that would resist him; the word "devil" means a slanderer (someone that lies about antother person. Neither did God create a "slanderer" to tell lies.

But if God created everthing surely he must of created a liar angel (a devil).

No, God created many millions of perfect angels not one of which was a "devil" or a "satan". However all of those angels had the right to choose if they wanted to do good or bad. Thus God created the individual who BECAME the devil.

To illustrate: Does a woman give birth to a baby or a theif? If nobody is born a thief who makes someone a theif? Is it not the person himself when he steals something? In a similar way the perfect angel that misused his free will and decided to rebel against God "made himself" a rebel, a liar and a "satan"

Further reading: Did God create the Devil?
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2011171

But how can a perfect angel sin?

Sin, for a perfect being is ultimately a choice. Being perfect doesn't mean being unable to do bad, it means not choosing to do bad. In the bible the word "perfect" means that which is complete, so a perfect angel is one created with evertything needed to meet God's requirements - he can always do good in evertything he does, if he wants to. However, the bible explains that if someone dwells on a negative thought, enough for a desire to do bad take root in his heart then eventually that individual will choose to do that bad thing. The angel that made himself a liar and a rebel obviously did not use his perfect mind in a positive way and allowed a bad thought to take rood, eventually that one chose to act on his bad desire. (see HERE for supporting scritpures)

RELATED POSTS

Did God KNOW that one of his angels would rebel?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 314#848314

Why did Jehovah not immediately destroy the Devil after his rebellion?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 975#845975

Further reading: Why Doesnâ€™t God Get Rid of the Devil?
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/maga ... -of-devil/

JEHOVAHS WITNESS

2timothy316 · Post by **2timothy316** » Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:32 am

Donray wrote:
2timothy316 wrote:
Donray wrote:
2timothy316 wrote:
Donray wrote: [Replying to post 5 by 2timothy316]

So this person knows why his god ignore him. Is this the reason god ignores all prays?

God does not care currently to save anyone from suffering. He wants them to suffer even though he could stop it.

Do I have everything correct?
No only does God want to stop it but He will as soon as He can save as many people that wish to turn from their wicked ways as possible. Do you accept that mankind are failures at ruling themselves? That the main ruler of this world Satan, needs to be put down and everyone that shares in his villainy? Would you like hear of the future that is planned? Would you like to hear what is going to happen to not only those victims of yesterdays crimes, but all crimes ever committed?

If you answer is yes, then I have some Good News to share.
If your answer is no and think mankind can dig themselves out these mass shootings on their own then I will leave you to find whatever you think will solve the problem.
As people said in this thread god does not give a damn about suffering currently.
So I guess your answer is a no. That Satan is right. Mankind is only concerned with what God can do for them. Do you not care about what kind of person He is but only care about what God can do for you?

Are you more concerned about what people say? Or are you more concerned with what the Bible, the word of God says? Do you only hear what you want to hear?
Why did god create Satan in the first place?
Satan wasn't always the rebel he is now. John 8:44 says that "he did not stand fast in the truth". Meaning he once was one of God's spiritual sons and obeyed God. But now Satan works against God. Trying to make Him look bad by placing all of his and mankind's wrong doing as Jehovah's fault. Are you falling for this? Now, who do you want to follow?
You failed to answer why your god create Satan? You must admit that an all knowing god would have known he created Satan. God knew that his spiritual son was going to go bad when he created him. I guess you are also saying your god is a foul and don't know what he creates.

Your god is so weak he could not destroy Satan but he can kill babies in a flood?

It's not a question of power. It's a question who has the right to rule. Have you read nothing I have said?

Did you know that the flood was brought upon mankind because of violence? The very thing we are facing now. All the people had to do at that time was build their own Ark and save themselves. But perhaps they were too busy blaming God for the violence, didn't build their own boat and drown. Do be that guy.

Donray · Post by **Donray** » Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:59 pm

[Replying to post 15 by JehovahsWitness]

All you do is preach what has been brainwashed into you. You cannot even state things in your own words. You just plagiarize stuff from your masters.
You failed to explain how Satan was not a creation of your god. You admit your god created everything. He created good and evil. If evil exists then your god created it along with the good.

For example, Adam and Eve were created without knowledge of good and evil. I would take it that your god also created angles without knowledge of good and evil and therefore no angel could commit evil since they did not know what evil is.

Why don't you provide proof from the bible that angels were created with free will. Make sure your proof says that angles were created with free will.

ttruscott · Post by **ttruscott** » Tue Nov 07, 2017 2:21 pm

brianbbs67 wrote: You failed to answer why your god create Satan? You must admit that an all knowing god would have known he created Satan. God knew that his spiritual son was going to go bad when he created him. I guess you are also saying your god is a foul and don't know what he creates.

Your god is so weak he could not destroy Satan but he can kill babies in a flood?

Free will is the answer you are looking for. We are given free will to do as we please. That dictates little to no interference.[/quote]

You've messed up the quote here...what I get when I quoted your whole post is not what I see when I look at your post...

I can't tell who said the first two paragraphs or the ending about free will.

So, my Christian opinion is:
GOD did not create Satan as Satan.
All of HIS creation was created ingenuously innocent with the ability to use their free will to become perfectly (eternally) holy or to rebel and become perfectly (eternally) evil.
Satan decided by his free will that YHWH was lying about being our creator GOD and about the nature of evil and its natural and legal consequences, rejecting HIS offer of election and salvation from all and any sin. By this attribution of evil to YHWH, Satan became eternally evil.

The contention about what YHWH knew at the time of creation is wrong. IF YHWH, the GOD who is love, 1 John 4:16 God is love; and kindness, 1 Cor 13:4 Love is patient, love is kind. and who wants no one to die, 2 Peter 3:9 Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance., knew BEFORE HE created them who would end in hell, HE would not have created them at all!

Only a GOD who loves evil and hurt would create those whom HE already knew would suffer for eternity in hell.

GOD can kill Satan anytime HE wants. HE promised those who asked to come under HIS promise of salvation that HE would never judge them. When these people, HIS elect, later did rebel against HIS call for the judgment of the reprobate (those who rejected HIS deity, putting their faith in HIS being a false god and a liar) the parable of the good seed and the tares tells us that rather than judge the tares at that time, HE has postponed the judgement day until they are mature in holiness and are safe from the effects of the judgement upon all evil.

HIS refusal to call the judgement when HIS sinful elect are in jeopardy of being sent to hell too, no matter how evil Satan and his demons act to try to force HIM to do so, is a sign of great strength of loving commitment to HIS elect, not a sign of weakness as suggested.

And whoever suggested the answer is found in our free will, with which I agree implicitly, must still answer how humans can have a free will when their wills are coerced by the enslaving addiction to evil, their dna and their family and cultural values they imbibe in childhood...??? The part of Romans 1 after 1:20 is a great description of how the truth of GOD is lost to sin by the supposedly free will of the sinner.

DanieltheDragon · Post by **DanieltheDragon** » Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:57 pm

[Replying to post 17 by Donray]

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Donray · Post by **Donray** » Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:10 am

[Replying to post 18 by ttruscott]

You have a major problem with your logic of your god creating things with fee will. He did not create Adam or Eve with free will. He created Adam and Eve without knowledge of good and evil and therefore did not allow them free will.

There is nothing in the bible that directly states god created man and angles with free. If there please give them and make sure that have "Free will" in the verse.

Second I hears that your god has a plan and any plan does not allow for free will to execute the plan. I was a project manger and people did what my plan stated and got fired if they used free will to do what they wanted. So god has a plan no free will.

Could you tell me how evil? You seem to think everyone is evil because Satan controls the earth and all humans. PS this also means the humans no free will since gods creation Satan stops it.

Again, you god creates everything and therefore created Satan. He created good and evil as I said and you failed to address.

Did/does your god create everything? If he did not create evil then how did create good? What is the reference for good if evil does not exist?