Pope to alter Lord's Prayer

[2ndRateMind]

So, as I woke up this morning, it was to the news that the Lord's Prayer has been mistranslated all this time, and the Pope intends to change the wording from:

'Our Father ... etc ... Lead us not into temptation...'

to

'Our Father ... etc ... Let us not fall into temptation...' (or something similar).

Apparently, it has been (somewhat belatedly) realised that God leads no one into temptation, only rescues them from it. Leading people into the temptation to sin, thinks the Pope, is entirely Satan's department.

And I think he is quite correct. But what are your views?

Best wishes, 2RM.

[bjs]

[Replying to 2ndRateMind]

Both are valid translations from the Greek. The passage itself does not give us clear enough context to say which is correct on that account.

Personally, I care very little. I find the distinction negligible.

“Let us not fall into temptation� is asking God to rescue us from temptation.

“Lead us not into temptation� is asking God to lead us to where we are not tempted.

The concepts seem basically the same, and both capture the sense of the original Greek. I am good with either. I will probably stick with the traditional translation out of habit.

[Claire Evans]

I think this comes from the Jewish belief of who God was. They believed He was in cahoots with Satan to tempt us. See the story of Job.

Yes, I know the story and find it repulsive, relieved only if one sees it in the context of fictional deities playing games. Leading folk into temptation isn't particularly nice, especially if you're going to hit them if they succumb. So Francis is right. He tries very hard in a tough role.

The Jews don't see Satan as an evil entity. Jesus made it clear that Satan was and there is no indication in the Bible that suggests Jesus thought God led people into temptation.

Just surprised that it took the Pope to rectify this.

[brianbbs67]

I think this comes from the Jewish belief of who God was. They believed He was in cahoots with Satan to tempt us. See the story of Job.

Yes, I know the story and find it repulsive, relieved only if one sees it in the context of fictional deities playing games. Leading folk into temptation isn't particularly nice, especially if you're going to hit them if they succumb. So Francis is right. He tries very hard in a tough role.

The Jews don't see Satan as an evil entity. Jesus made it clear that Satan was and there is no indication in the Bible that suggests Jesus thought God led people into temptation.

Just surprised that it took the Pope to rectify this.

I don't think that Jews find him unevil. Ha' Satan, the high adversary is how he is called.

Marco, I think God tests us all.

[2ndRateMind]

Apparently, it has been (somewhat belatedly) realised that God leads no one into temptation, only rescues them from it. Leading people into the temptation to sin, thinks the Pope, is entirely Satan's department.

And I think he is quite correct. But what are your views?

At the beginning, god had a choice of every possible world. For each of these worlds, he knew everything that would ever happen. If he chose to create one in which the devil leads people astray, then that is his plan. He is the source and reason for the devil leading people astray. The devil is, in effect, acting as the god's agent--regardless of whether the devil knows this.

I think this is the essence and substance of 'the problem of (moral) evil'. Even if we blame the devil as the proximate cause of the evil people do, I do not see how we can altogether absolve God of His creator's responsibility, any more than being successfully tempted absolves us of our own accountability.

Unless, of course, moral evil serves the purpose of a greater good, foreseen and desired by God, such as that we might learn from the errors of our ways, both individually and collectively. That would justify Him, and all His creation, if we think the ends justify the means. And even hint at a more kindly afterlife for the majority of us than being cast into an eternal lake of fire.

Best wishes, 2RM.

[brianbbs67]

[Replying to post 13 by 2ndRateMind]

We live in a world of choices. Some good, some bad. We can't blame the devil or God, for something we choose. He gave us a brain. We need to use it more. When I do something I know I shouldn't have, I don't blame anyone but me.

[Claire Evans]

I think this comes from the Jewish belief of who God was. They believed He was in cahoots with Satan to tempt us. See the story of Job.

Yes, I know the story and find it repulsive, relieved only if one sees it in the context of fictional deities playing games. Leading folk into temptation isn't particularly nice, especially if you're going to hit them if they succumb. So Francis is right. He tries very hard in a tough role.

The Jews don't see Satan as an evil entity. Jesus made it clear that Satan was and there is no indication in the Bible that suggests Jesus thought God led people into temptation.

Just surprised that it took the Pope to rectify this.

I don't think that Jews find him unevil. Ha' Satan, the high adversary is how he is called.

Marco, I think God tests us all.

No, they believe he is an agent of God to test us to remain our faith. He does only want God allows him to do.

http://www.whatjewsbelieve.org/explanation7.html

[brianbbs67]

[Replying to post 15 by Claire Evans]

Yes, I was not clear. That is what I believe also.

[Claire Evans]

[Replying to post 15 by Claire Evans]

Yes, I was not clear. That is what I believe also.

That is not what I believe. God is not in cahoots with Satan. He would never allow Satan to do the evil he commits.

[brianbbs67]

[Replying to post 15 by Claire Evans]

Yes, I was not clear. That is what I believe also.

That is not what I believe. God is not in cahoots with Satan. He would never allow Satan to do the evil he commits.

Yes, He would and did. Read Job. The adversary is given a task to do. Assigned by God. Why is he is the presence of God, if not ? The world lets us explore all consequences.

[2ndRateMind]

...God is not in cahoots with Satan...

That may be the wrong way to think about it. Maybe Satan is in cahoots with God. Maybe Satan exists because God knows that life would be incredibly boring without evil to combat, and there would be no point or purpose to our lives. We would be mere cattle, chewing cud, until the Grim Reaper chose to scythe us down. This prompts the paradoxical thought that maybe the world is perfect because it is imperfect.

Best wishes, 2RM.