Jesus said to be no part of the world...

[SaulToPaul]

If you live by the Bible, then it's clear that politics and Christianity should NEVER mix. In fact, Jehovah's Witnesses believe exactly what the Word says. Though we must adhere to the laws of human rule (Romans 13:1), we should never vote for anything that is human created.

If it's not clear, Ecclesiastes 8:9 says that "man has dominated man to his harm". Why then, would we cast votes for a man? There is only one ruler that we should willingly slave for, and that is Jehovah God.

It is best to avoid politics altogether.

[marco]

[Replying to post 9 by 2ndRateMind]

No sir, this is a debate. I have given you scripture, whereas you have given opinion. I will not agree to disagree. I stand behind THE BIBLE and you don't, yet you claim Christianity. You are not a Christian unfortunately. The word Christian means "Christ-Like", not "somewhat Christ-Like" or "almost Christ-Like". Being Christ-Like means adoring the Word (also known as Jesus) and fully trusting and abiding by every single thing that it (he) says. What you are sir, is a part of what is known as Christendom. Google it. You believe what the world says and thinks, NOT what Jehovah has COMMANDED.

Thats the problem with the world, and why most of you will be destroyed shortly. It's sad.

If you have nothing else to say, then the Bible has won this debate.

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[2ndRateMind]

[Replying to post 10 by SaulToPaul]

OK, if you insist, and since I have nothing better to do right now, let's look at 2 Corinthians 6:17, in context*.

Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowhip hath righteousness with unrighteousness? And what communion hath light with darkness?

And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

So, our argument is not that Christians should not be separate from pagans, just the degree and nature of that separation.

You seem to want a version of Christianity hermetically sealed off from the rest of the world, and even from other Christians who interpret the scriptures differently from you.

I said:

I think Paul is simply saying that the Corinthians should not allow their faith to be polluted by the attitudes, practices and way of life of the pagans. But I also think one can, and should, accomplish this while still engaging fully in public life. Else our faith is, in an important sense, barren.

I think that Christians have a lot to offer to, and receive from, the world, and should engage with it, in all it's complex dimensions, all the while keeping our faith precious and real and the moral compass it provides us our guiding principle. I think the separation Paul is suggesting for the Corinthians is spiritual, not theological, philosophical, political, economic or social. So I further think that if we fail to give to and get from the world, we are not only letting God down, and each other, but also arrogantly refusing His gifts.

Thus, I find my 'opinion' as to the way this passage should be interpreted quite as well supported by scripture as your, more extreme, literalist, ideology.

Best wishes, 2RM.

*2 Corinthians 6: 14-18 KJV

[2ndRateMind]

The real problem is the words "I think" that you use...The word "think" implies that philosophy is at work in your mind, instead of faith...

God gave us brains and minds and intellects. I can only presume that He intended for us to use them.

Best wishes, 2RM.

[2ndRateMind]

If it's not clear, Ecclesiastes 8:9 says that "man has dominated man to his harm". Why then, would we cast votes for a man?

Incidentally, my version of the Bible, the Authorised King James, has:

All this have I seen, and applied my heart unto every work that is done under the sun: there is a time wherein one man ruleth over another to his own hurt.

And I think this is broadly correct: sometimes the power of a prince or ruler goes to his head, and he does things detrimental to the interests of the people, and therefore to his own spiritual stature. But I do not think that provides a reason not to vote, or partake in the democratic process. Quite the opposite; we need virtue in power, and the presence of Christians amongst the machinery of government, to guard precisely against this danger.

Best wishes, 2RM.

[amortalman]

If it's not clear, Ecclesiastes 8:9 says that "man has dominated man to his harm". Why then, would we cast votes for a man? There is only one ruler that we should willingly slave for, and that is Jehovah God.

It is best to avoid politics altogether.

So you should vote for the man who will not dominate man. You vote for the candidate whom you feel will best represent what you believe in.

You can slave for Jehovah all you want, but I don't think Jehovah or any other god is going to involve himself in the myriad details of running a government. That's why we try to elect the best people we can to do that.

To participate in the democratic election process is one of the greatest privileges we have as free people. If you won't cast your vote I'm sure someone will vote for you and you and that might not turn out so good for you.

You can avoid politics but politics won't avoid you. You enjoy or suffer the consequences of political decisions every day.

[2ndRateMind]

[Replying to post 7 by 2ndRateMind]

The real problem is the words "I think" that you use. The Bible is not to be taken how you want it to fit your life. ... By your thinking something other than what is specifically spoken about in scripture, you are doing exactly what Adam and Eve did, which is try and do things how you believe they should be done, and look where we are for that.

So, am I to conclude, then, that you think I should live my life according to what you think?

Compare this with the (fictitious) notion that I think you should live your life according to what I think.

I am sure we each find the relevant option equally obnoxious, however we interpret scripture.

Best wishes, 2RM.

[William]

[Replying to post 1 by SaulToPaul]

If you live by the Bible, then it's clear that politics and Christianity should NEVER mix.

That is far from the truth of the matter.
The adage 'never mix religion with politics' comes from the perception that somehow these are two separate entities having nothing to do with each other when in reality they are one and the same.

I have seen many anti-theist atheists use this adage in frustration due to their perception that the of mixing the two is precisely why the world has so many problems.

Christianity is demonstrably a creation of politics - Roman politics to be precise and Roman politics never disappeared. Indeed - it took on the persona of its creation - Christendom - and through that, well we have what we have - the world we currently live in.

In fact, Jehovah's Witnesses believe exactly what the Word says.

Consequently the Sect of Christendom known as 'Jehovah's Witnesses' are forefront in the activity of spreading the word of the Roman invention into the world, claiming it to be 'the word of GOD' as they do. They are deceived and in that, they deceive others.

Though we must adhere to the laws of human rule (Romans 13:1),...

Exactly! How about that! Do you not understand that 'the laws of human rule' are created through the political branch of human society?

...we should never vote for anything that is human created.

Yet there they are, voting to adhere to the rules that humans have created through politics!
Admittedly the contradiction in terms is not understood by those who follow such precepts because they have been convinced that the bible is 'the word of GOD' rather than in truth, 'the word of politically motivated senates' who cleverly invented Christendom for the purpose of pacifying the masses over which they rule.

One simply cannot sort the wheat from the chaff if one already believes that the bible is pure wheat. Therein is the dilemma. The bible has been portrayed as infallible, unquestionable, and inspired by GOD. Anyone who disagrees or attempts in any way to point out the truth regarding this, is simply ignored as a godless heretic - a device of the devil. How convenient! The bible probable even has a passage or two which can be used against such individuals!

If it's not clear, Ecclesiastes 8:9 says that "man has dominated man to his harm". Why then, would we cast votes for a man?

Do you think that by not casting votes you are clear from any responsibility? If you are involved in such systems, whether you vote or not, you are part of the harm being caused. Read this thread for more about that.
The far better way to approach this is to admit our parts in this as this allows for [analogy] a door to open in relation to finding practical ways which we can help to change that predicament. Read this thread for more about that.

There is only one ruler that we should willingly slave for, and that is Jehovah God.

More politics wrapped up in religiosity - this time from a culture prior to Roman domination. A culture the Romans attempted to undermine through the invention of Christendom by mixing the old with the new.

Whoever *Jesus* was, he was looking for brothers, not 'slaves' - he was putting the shout out for the lost children of GOD to stand and recognize themselves and Children of GOD not slaves of GOD.

Rome was/is the one wanting slaves.

It is best to avoid politics altogether.

While there is breath in you body and you continue to live in this world, no one can 'avoid' politics because the laws of humans are what allow you to exist as you do, in these systems of disparity, and anyone who believes otherwise is simply not paying attention to the facts.

♦ Is The Bible Really The Word Of GOD?

♦ Christianity - a political device created for a specific purpose.

[Wootah]

If you live by the Bible, then it's clear that politics and Christianity should NEVER mix. In fact, Jehovah's Witnesses believe exactly what the Word says. Though we must adhere to the laws of human rule (Romans 13:1), we should never vote for anything that is human created.

If it's not clear, Ecclesiastes 8:9 says that "man has dominated man to his harm". Why then, would we cast votes for a man? There is only one ruler that we should willingly slave for, and that is Jehovah God.

It is best to avoid politics altogether.

How can you avoid politics altogether. Politics exists within families, within groups, within society.