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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:40 am  The kingdom of God. Reply with quote

Some seem to think it is entirely future, while others give the impression they are always thinking of it as present, and to not be looking at the future in kingdom terms at all.

Jesus had much to say about the kingdom, including this:

Quote:
Luke 16:

6 The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone is being zealously urged into it.


So, where do you stand as to whether it is present, future, or has both a present and a future aspect?

On what basis?

According to which scriptures?
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 441: Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:15 pm
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The kingdom of God is nothing more than the spiritual enlightenment of each individual in this time and at this place in history.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 442: Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:26 pm
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onewithhim wrote:


Well, we just have to kick off the dust and go on. Not everyone will agree with us. We wish you peace.


Mark 6:11 "And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city."

I think this is a beautiful example of polite dismissal, using Mark to make the point. The assumption is that the speaker has put on the garments of the apostles and anyone who interprets differently is plain wrong. I wish I had that confidence.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 443: Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:10 pm
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marco wrote:

onewithhim wrote:


Well, we just have to kick off the dust and go on. Not everyone will agree with us. We wish you peace.


Mark 6:11 "And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city."

I think this is a beautiful example of polite dismissal, using Mark to make the point. The assumption is that the speaker has put on the garments of the apostles and anyone who interprets differently is plain wrong. I wish I had that confidence.



I disagree with your interpretation of "shaking the dust from one's feet". I interpret the passage differently. I Also disagree with your implying that the words only apply to the 12 Apostles and have no application to Christs disciples throughout the ages including those living today. I interpret that differently also.

JW

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 444: Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:23 pm
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JehovahsWitness wrote:



I disagree with your interpretation of "shaking the dust from one's feet". I interpret the passage differently.


Excuse my clumsiness. I was referring to your polite dismissal.



For_The_Kingdom wrote:




I Also disagree with your implying that the words only apply to the 12 Apostles and have no application to Christ's disciples throughout the ages including those living today. I interpret that differently also.



They may well apply to modern disciples but it would be presumptuous automatically to assume one has that authority and then dismiss others from the standpoint of apostolic eminence.

Luke 14: 8 tells us "
"When thou art bidden of any man to a wedding, sit not down in the highest room; lest a more honourable man than thou be bidden of him."

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 445: Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:56 pm
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Peace to you Marco,

marco wrote:

tam wrote:



I have always been terrible at understanding and interpreting symbolism... always hated poetry in high school for that reason. I could never figure out what anyone was talking about!)


Perhaps you read the wrong poetry. It has much to teach us. It can be done beautifully as in the KJV of David's lament for Jonathan but read the NIV and beauty has vanished and not just from Gath.


Oh, I am not going to do the same as Martin Luther and blame the poetry, lol. It was not the poetry, it was me.


Quote:
One of my favourite poems mourns with nostalgia and sadness:

"Into my heart an air that kills
From yon far country blows:
What are those blue remembered hills,
What spires, what farms are those?

That is the land of lost content,
I see it shining plain,
The happy highways where I went
And cannot come again."



Well now, I might get a sense of that one... perhaps because you have spoken of your lost faith with similar nostalgia and sadness.

Thank you for sharing it.

Quote:
But I lose patience with Revelation while you have the patience of Job, so you have mined meaning from it.


I lost patience also (with my lack of understanding), had to take a break, and realize it was not up to me to interpret it... and that no matter how wide I opened my eyes or how forcefully I read each and every word, I was not going to force the meaning clear.

Had to leave it to Christ, let Him reveal it.

Some things are straightforward of course (and surely you can recognize His manner of speaking in the seven letters to the seven congregations), but others are more symoblic (such as the beast that comes out of the sea or the beast that comes out of the earth).

One thing to keep in mind is that John was shown many things from the future, even two thousand years into the future. He then had to describe those things, and how else would he have described them except in terms that HE knew? So some things are not symbolic so much as they are descriptions from a man who saw things that would not be invented or even conceived of, until upwards of two thousand years (or more) into his future.

Take a plane (just as an example). We would describe a plane as something metal that flies via an engine (producing smoke behind the plane), with pilots and cockpits and computer controls, etc. (okay that is obviously a 21st century LAY person description of a plane, lol. An engineer or pilot or mechanic would do MUCH better than that). But planes did not exist two thousand years ago, those very general words that I just used did not exist two thousand years ago either.



Quote:
That is good. You will note that Jesus never used that kind of language.


Depends upon which parts you are referring to. But visions had always worked that way. Daniel and John both saw the same beast(s) in their visions, then had to describe those things. Daniel described 4 beasts (still with seven heads and ten horns). John described one beast that had elements of those 4 beasts (but also with the seven heads and ten horns).

Daniel and John received the same vision.

Then Christ is the One who came and explained that vision to Daniel. We can see that this person who came was Christ because the description Daniel gave of Him is the same as the description John gave of Christ in HIS vision. (Revelation 1:12-18 and Daniel 10:4-6)




Peace again to you, Marco,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 446: Sat Jan 13, 2018 4:20 pm
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marco wrote:

JehovahsWitness wrote:



I disagree with your interpretation of "shaking the dust from one's feet". I interpret the passage differently.


Excuse my clumsiness. I was referring to your polite dismissal.


I haven't dismissed anybody but thanks so much for your points. It is most kind of you to answer. I do believe you are right those words are in the bible, and I take the bible to be authoriative.

Thanks again,

Be well,


JW

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 447: Sat Jan 13, 2018 4:57 pm
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marco wrote:


JehovahsWitness wrote:



I disagree with your interpretation of "shaking the dust from one's feet". I interpret the passage differently.


Excuse my clumsiness. I was referring to onewithhim's polite dismissal.



JW wrote:




I Also disagree with your implying that the words only apply to the 12 Apostles and have no application to Christ's disciples throughout the ages including those living today. I interpret that differently also.



They may well apply to modern disciples but it would be presumptuous automatically to assume one has that authority and then dismiss others from the standpoint of apostolic eminence.

Luke 14: 8 tells us "
"When thou art bidden of any man to a wedding, sit not down in the highest room; lest a more honourable man than thou be bidden of him."

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 448: Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:00 pm
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JehovahsWitness wrote:

marco wrote:

JehovahsWitness wrote:



I disagree with your interpretation of "shaking the dust from one's feet". I interpret the passage differently.


Excuse my clumsiness. I was referring to your polite dismissal.


I haven't dismissed anybody but thanks so much for your points. It is most kind of you to answer. I do believe you are right those words are in the bible, and I take the bible to be authoritative.

Thanks again,

Be well,




Indeed you dismissed nobody, JW. Excuse my sleepy oversight - I thought I was addressing onewithhim. I have corrected the mistakes in my post.

Go well.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 449: Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:42 pm
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dio9 wrote:

The kingdom of God is nothing more than the spiritual enlightenment of each individual in this time and at this place in history.

Forgive me if I don't remember you having done this before---but would you explain to me how Isaiah 9:6,7 and Daniel 2:44 are referring to some kind of enlightenment within each individual? Aren't they referring to a government?

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 450: Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:47 pm
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marco wrote:
They may well apply to modern disciples but it would be presumptuous automatically to assume one has that authority and then dismiss others from the standpoint of apostolic eminence.
Emphasis MINE

I don't know what you mean by "apostolic eminence". No Jehovah's Witness believes they have the same authority as the Apostles if that's what you mean. I think that might be a Catholic teaching.

JW

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