Why would God allow a toothache?

[liamconnor]

My nephew (he is six) currently has a toothache and it keeps him up crying most of the night. I tell you, when I saw him the day it set in, it was quite heartbreaking.

Why would a good God allow this? Is a toothache inflicting a six year old not immediate grounds for dismissing a good God behind the universe?

I am most interested in the answer from atheists and agnostics.

[liamconnor]

[Replying to post 4 by Divine Insight]

My first thought is that atheists and agnostics have no reason to believe that a God exists in the first place, therefore they have no need for any reasons to dismiss it.

Except that many agnostics and atheists discount God on the grounds of Pain. The God of the bible is often impugned because he not only allows but inflicts pain.

In fact, why limit yourself to being concerned with a mere toothache? Why not address the really ugly problems of parents who's child is born grossly deformed? Or born with a horrible genetic disease? Etc.

Because degrees of pain are highly subjective. We behold a child suffering from toothache and, with sympathy, smile knowingly that "this too will pass". It is not so for the child. He is not laughing (as we might do when we strike our 'funny bone'). He is in utter agony. He does not have philosophy or an experienced perspective to lean on.

Many times terrible tragedies like the holocaust or Columbine are brought up to question God's goodness or existence. Each example is brought up as though it were fresh and new. But all of them are really instances of the ageless "Problem of Pain".


The following...

You may even ask why I even bother being agnostic when a secular world appears to explain everything pretty well. Well, I'm certainly not agnostic with respect to something like the Biblical God. I'm completely convinced that the Biblical God cannot be true as described in the Bible. However, I remain agnostic in terms of other possible types of a "God".

For example, in the pantheistic view of the world all that exists is "God", therefore everyone, including the 6-year-old child you refer to in the OP is actually just God incarnated as a human. Therefore God is only suffering as much as God is willing to suffer, and everything happens only to God. There are no independent "human souls".

I'll grant you that this type of theology is difficult to embrace or fully understand. But if God is all that exists, then God is doing all of this stuff to himself and he's willing to experience this kind of pain and suffering, for whatever reason.

I'm not convinced of pantheism, but I remain agnostic to the possibility. If God is all that exists, then only God can suffer and there are no such things as "Human Souls".

But keep in mind that if this is reality, then it also makes no sense to have souls being punished for their behavior. And it especially makes no sense to have an eternal hell where evil souls are cast for eternity. It also would make no sense for this God to have his only begotten Son crucified by humans to offer human souls salvation.

So if Pantheism is true, nothing in the Bible makes any sense at all. The Bible is totally dependent on humans being totally separate entities from God. Ironically this is actually an extreme theological problem as well, but that's a whole other story.

...has almost nothing to do with the OP, no? Your thoughts on Pantheism are no doubt interesting, but hardly relevant here...?

Just reading the Bible I can easily dismiss the Biblical God by Genesis chapter 3. No need to read any further.

Don't remember bringing up Genesis or even the bible, do you?

[FarWanderer]

My nephew (he is six) currently has a toothache and it keeps him up crying most of the night. I tell you, when I saw him the day it set in, it was quite heartbreaking.

Why would a good God allow this? Is a toothache inflicting a six year old not immediate grounds for dismissing a good God behind the universe?

I am most interested in the answer from atheists and agnostics.

Unlike God, we are limited beings. Suffering is how we know our limitations. Therefore suffering is a necessary part of our existence.

The question underneath is why our limitations are different. Cain went to God demanding to know the answer, but he wasn't satisfied with the response he got. I don't know if I would be either. Better to ask Darwin on that one.

[liamconnor]

My nephew (he is six) currently has a toothache and it keeps him up crying most of the night. I tell you, when I saw him the day it set in, it was quite heartbreaking.

Why would a good God allow this? Is a toothache inflicting a six year old not immediate grounds for dismissing a good God behind the universe?

I am most interested in the answer from atheists and agnostics.

Unlike God, we are limited beings. Suffering is how we know our limitations. Therefore suffering is a necessary part of our existence.

The question underneath is why our limitations are different. Cain went to God demanding to know the answer, but he wasn't satisfied with the response he got. I don't know if I would be either. Better to ask Darwin on that one.

Cain went to God demanding to know the answer, but he wasn't satisfied with the response he got

Nor am I. Is it possible to reconcile a good God with my nephew's toothache? If all the world were "at peace and at ease" but for one toothache in Littleton CO, would this be compatible with a good God?

[marco]

Anything but accept that we are sinners and all the suffering, ever bit of it, is in response to our choice to be evil... Anything rather than accept that we are guilty for the physical manifestation of evil and the suffering it causes, not GOD... and when this is done, evil and suffering will be eradicated from HIS reality.

It isn't a question of refusing to accept we are sinners. The man three doors down might be but what's that to me? I miscalculate, occasionally tell some untruth but I haven't blown people off the face of the Earth or turned Mrs. Brown into a pillar of salt. Regarding us as sinners, rather than basically decent beings, is the stuff of Jeremiah.

Carpe diem, as old Horace said, for tomorrow we shall join those who went before us a thousand years ago.

[Monta]

[Replying to post 4 by Divine Insight]

"But keep in mind that if this is reality, then it also makes no sense to have souls being punished for their behavior. And it especially makes no sense to have an eternal hell where evil souls are cast for eternity."

If I love my hellish life here on earth why should I be deprived

of hellish life for eternity?

[marco]

If I love my hellish life here on earth why should I be deprived

of hellish life for eternity?

There are thousands or millions who do not love their hellish life here. If they have time to utter some lie or steal some bread it would be unfortunate if they found a worse hell post mortem. Eternal unconscious rest might be a blessing.

[FarWanderer]

Cain went to God demanding to know the answer, but he wasn't satisfied with the response he got

Nor am I. Is it possible to reconcile a good God with my nephew's toothache? If all the world were "at peace and at ease" but for one toothache in Littleton CO, would this be compatible with a good God?

I don't think an entire world "at peace and at ease" would be a sign of a good God in the first place.

Suffering seems built into the fabric of Being. "Heaven" as commonly conceived is annihilation. I'll take Earth.

If your nephew rather Be than not, I'd say that the suffering he endures is compatible with a good God. Perhaps not perfectly good, but good.

[1213]

...Why would a good God allow this? ...

Could the reason be that we learn to take care of things?

[ttruscott]

"But keep in mind that if this is reality, then it also makes no sense to have souls being punished for their behavior. And it especially makes no sense to have an eternal hell where evil souls are cast for eternity."

Who has no investment in the punishment of evil? Who thinks that if evil rejects all rehabilitation that they should not be imprisoned away from polite society?

[dianaiad]

My nephew (he is six) currently has a toothache and it keeps him up crying most of the night. I tell you, when I saw him the day it set in, it was quite heartbreaking.

Why would a good God allow this? Is a toothache inflicting a six year old not immediate grounds for dismissing a good God behind the universe?

I am most interested in the answer from atheists and agnostics.

Why are his parents allowing this? Didn't they take him to a dentist?