Even if Jesus is mediator between God and man..

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Elijah John
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Even if Jesus is mediator between God and man..

Post #1

Post by Elijah John »

If Jesus is mediator between God and man, should the mediator be worshiped? Should he be Divinized?

Is this what Jesus intended, his own glorification?
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

2timothy316
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Re: Even if Jesus is mediator between God and man..

Post #2

Post by 2timothy316 »

Elijah John wrote: If Jesus is mediator between God and man, should the mediator be worshiped? Should he be Divinized?

Is this what Jesus intended, his own glorification?
“Father, let your name be sanctified.� (Luke 11:2)
“I have made your name known . . . and will make it known.� (John 17:26)
“every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.� (Php 2:9-11)

There is no mention that Jesus should be worshiped. But Jesus should be respected for the place that Jehovah assigned him. When Jesus asked Peter, 'who do you say I am'. Peter answered, "“You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.�" He didn't just say 'Jesus'. Peter gave Jesus' position. As the Christ, Jesus deserves the honor that his Father Jehovah gave him. “This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved; listen to him.� (Matthew 17:1-5)

Elijah John
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Re: Even if Jesus is mediator between God and man..

Post #3

Post by Elijah John »

2timothy316 wrote:
Elijah John wrote: If Jesus is mediator between God and man, should the mediator be worshiped? Should he be Divinized?

Is this what Jesus intended, his own glorification?
“Father, let your name be sanctified.� (Luke 11:2)
“I have made your name known . . . and will make it known.� (John 17:26)
“every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.� (Php 2:9-11)

There is no mention that Jesus should be worshiped. But Jesus should be respected for the place that Jehovah assigned him. When Jesus asked Peter, 'who do you say I am'. Peter answered, "“You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.�" He didn't just say 'Jesus'. Peter gave Jesus' position. As the Christ, Jesus deserves the honor that his Father Jehovah gave him. “This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved; listen to him.� (Matthew 17:1-5)
Yes, honor is one thing. But you and I both know that in "Christendom" Jesus is worshipped.

To the glory of god the Father? Seems Jesus-worship, and Divinizing the mediator, has only (or more accurately mostly) resulted in the glorfying of Jesus, to the dimishment of God the Father.

Certainly, to the dimishment of God the Father as the central fosus of devotion in Trinitarian Christianity, at least.

The other verses you provided seem to indicate that Jesus own glorification via Jesus-worship is not what Jesus intended.
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

2timothy316
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Re: Even if Jesus is mediator between God and man..

Post #4

Post by 2timothy316 »

Elijah John wrote:
2timothy316 wrote:
Elijah John wrote: If Jesus is mediator between God and man, should the mediator be worshiped? Should he be Divinized?

Is this what Jesus intended, his own glorification?
“Father, let your name be sanctified.� (Luke 11:2)
“I have made your name known . . . and will make it known.� (John 17:26)
“every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.� (Php 2:9-11)

There is no mention that Jesus should be worshiped. But Jesus should be respected for the place that Jehovah assigned him. When Jesus asked Peter, 'who do you say I am'. Peter answered, "“You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.�" He didn't just say 'Jesus'. Peter gave Jesus' position. As the Christ, Jesus deserves the honor that his Father Jehovah gave him. “This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved; listen to him.� (Matthew 17:1-5)
Yes, honor is one thing. But you and I both know that in "Christendom" Jesus is worshipped.
Yes unfortunately.
To the glory of god the Father? Seems Jesus-worship, and Divinizing the mediator, has only (or more accurately mostly) resulted in the glorfying of Jesus, to the dimishment of God the Father.
Jesus glorified Jehovah in his preaching and his willingness to obey God and reject worshiping anything or anyone else. When Satan asked Jesus for an act of worship, Jesus directed Satan to Deuteronomy 6:13 which says, "Jehovah your God you should fear, and him you should serve."

So while others might will see what they want to see, the truth is that Jesus didn't diminish God's name or how He should be viewed.
Certainly, to the dimishment of God the Father as the central fosus of devotion in Trinitarian Christianity, at least.
No argument there. The trinity is for those that prefer to follow tradition of men 1st and the Bible 2nd...or 3rd or not at all. The person that says, 'I believe because that what my father was and his father before him etc etc.' I have even had a person tell me they are aware and glad that the trinity is not supported by the Bible. Because they feel that the trinity teaching is beyond the Bible.
The other verses you provided seem to indicate that Jesus own glorification via Jesus-worship is not what Jesus intended.
Not for his glorification. Jesus was humble. Jesus said, "But I am not seeking glory for myself; there is One who is seeking and judging." - John 8:50. It can't be made clearer than that. Though he was not seeking it, his Father gave him more glory than he had because of his obedience, not because that is what Jesus wanted. Jesus was not seeking to compete against God in glory. No, that's Satan's desire and the desire of all those who share in seeking glory for themselves. Satan is mocking Jehovah by misleading others to worship His Son. Much like what Satan did with the copper snake. Satan misleads people by taking one of Jehovah's means of hope and turning into an object of worship. It's an insult.

Besides, this whole seeking glory business was something Jesus contently warned his disciples to avoid. His disciples were always fighting about 'who was greater' than the other. Jesus told them, “If anyone wants to be first, he must be last of all and minister of all.� - Mark 9:35. The word minister is also rendered servant. I don't know many cardinals or pope's that are treated as servants or act like servants. I regularly see them act more like lords.

TripleZ
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Re: Even if Jesus is mediator between God and man..

Post #5

Post by TripleZ »

Elijah John wrote: If Jesus is mediator between God and man, should the mediator be worshiped? Should he be Divinized?

Is this what Jesus intended, his own glorification?
more suppositions sic! So what does the Word Of God tell YOU ?

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Re: Even if Jesus is mediator between God and man..

Post #6

Post by TripleZ »

Elijah John wrote: If Jesus is mediator between God and man, should the mediator be worshiped? Should he be Divinized?

Is this what Jesus intended, his own glorification?
�רבעה עשר דרות ומגלות בבל עד־המשיח �רבעה עשר דרות׃
Mat 1:18 וזה דבר הלדת ישוע המשיח מרי� �מו היתה מ�רשה ליוסף ובטר� יב� �ליה נמצ�ת הרה מרוח הקדש׃
Mat 1:19 ויוסף בעלה �יש צדיק ול� �בה לתתה לחרפה וי�מר �שלחנה בסתר׃
Mat 1:20 הו� חשב כז�ת והנה מל�ך יהוה נר�ה �ליו בחלו� וי�מר יוסף בן־דוד �ל־תיר� מקחת �ת מרי� �שתך כי הנוצר בקרבה מרוח הקדש הו�׃
Mat 1:21 והי� ילדת בן וקר�ת �ת־שמו ישוע כי הו� יושיע �ת־עמו מחט�תיה�׃
Mat 1:22 וכל־ז�ת היתה למל�ת �ת־דבר יהוה �שר־דבר ביד הנבי� ל�מר׃
Mat 1:23 הנה העלמה הרה וילדת בן וקר�ו שמו עמנו�ל �שר פרושו ה�ל עמנו׃
Mat 1:24 וייקץ יוסף משנתו ויעש כ�שר צוהו מל�ך יהוה וי�סף �ת־�שתו �ל ביתו׃
Mat 1:25 ול� ידעה עד כי־ילדה בן (�ת־בכורה) ויקר� �ת־שמו ישוע׃

BTW Yeshua ( his real Hebrew Name ) anyway, Yeshua never ever told nor asked nor hinted that He be worshipped, never, so why are you asking this ? I might suggest that you read the Bible, once, at least..especially the parts that you seem to know nothing about ( yet ) the claims above..

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Post #7

Post by otseng »

TripleZ wrote:I might suggest that you read the Bible, once, at least..especially the parts that you seem to know nothing about ( yet ) the claims above..
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Post #8

Post by dio9 »

From the Gospel of John Jesus was more than a mediator . God or man was settled by the ecumenical councils and theologians. Jesus was God, That's different from mediator. Paul saw Jesus as the Lord, and Christianity does too. If Christ were only a mediator he would be less than God.
To be pre-existent ( the word) as John wrote means Jesus is essentially God himself.
Last edited by dio9 on Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Even if Jesus is mediator between God and man..

Post #9

Post by TripleZ »

Elijah John wrote: If Jesus is mediator between God and man, should the mediator be worshiped? Should he be Divinized?

Is this what Jesus intended, his own glorification?
Supposition again, where do get this " idea " of yours from ? It is NOT from the Scriptures ...sic!

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Post #10

Post by 2timothy316 »

dio9 wrote: God or man was settled by the ecumenical councils and theologians. .
There's that tradition I was speaking of in an earlier post.
viewtopic.php?p=911751#911751
The trinity is for those that prefer to follow tradition of men 1st and the Bible 2nd...or 3rd or not at all.
These councils went off script from the Bible. They graphed Babylonian and Grecian teachings onto Christian teachings. When they did that, they were no longer teaching what John, Peter, Paul etc taught. John even writes that in his time there were those that were saying things that 'do not originate with God'. (1 John 4:1) Jesus foretold that after he left 'oppressive wolves' would enter among the brotherhood and will speak 'twisted' things. Those councils fulfilled those prophecies. Before those councils, no trinity. Yet after them the 'Church' began doing horrible things. Translating the Bible into a dead language that no one understood. Taking over governments and starting huge wars. Burning folks and lets not forget torture and assassinations. Jesus said there would be wolves that "will not treat the flock with tenderness". He wasn't kidding. The trinity doctrine is just one of many teachings of apostasy. The Jews didn't teach it nor did the first Christians. It's a man-made doctrine that Constantine decreed as legitimate so that people in his country wouldn't kill each other over the issue.

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