Trump Tax Reform

[Furrowed Brow]

Trump tax reform has now passed. It gives a tax cut to everyone. However the richer you are the more generous the tax cuts. It also appears the tax breaks initially handed out to the poorest percentiles will be clawed back by around 2027. For good or bad I think we can agree these tax reforms are significant.

So will everyone benefit and this reform prove to be the economic fillip America needs? Will the reforms help make America great again? Or are these reforms a mixed bag destined to make little difference? Or do these reforms signal a plutocratic class grabbing the silver before the fall of the Republic. An observed characteristic of empires and civilisations in their last days.

How does religion make a difference to how you see these questions. I'm a left leaning atheist and my answers to these questions fall in the category of negative to very negative. Are there any concerned right wing Christians who feel these reforms are a huge mistake. Or does Trump's tax reforms ignite the same ol' divisions?

[Kenisaw]

[Replying to post 1 by Furrowed Brow]

Most middle class people I know are going to get more money in their paychecks. Sounds good to me, even if idiots like Nancy Pelosi thing that $1000 is "crumbs for the middle class"...

[amortalman]

The bottom line claim that Trump was making is that these corporate tax cuts are going to equate to HIGHER WAGES not just more poorly paying jobs.

Let's see if that's true.

I have serious doubts.

I even predict the following: There may be some short-term superficial appearance of a shot in the arm for the economy in general (not necessarily higher wages as promised). And that will be seen as a victory. But in the long haul it's going to be a disaster, eventually petering out and creating a far greater deficit.

In fact, if the boost to the economy is measured by an increase in "profits" for the corporations then that will indeed be a farce. If they are having major tax cuts I certainly expect their "profits" to increase. So that would be a false measurement to be sure.

If we don't see significantly higher wages, then the whole thing was a big lie.

According to POLITIFACT: "Americans for Tax Reform used company press releases and media reports to compile a list of announced bonuses or other financial benefits. The group found that as of the day of Trump’s State of the Union speech, at least 3 million Americans are receiving special tax reform bonuses.

American Airlines, FedEx, Home Depot, Nationwide Insurance, Walmart and Walt Disney Company were among the companies that announced bonuses.

In total, at least 286 companies have announced wage and salary increases, bonuses, or 401(k) match increases, or in the case of public utility companies, lower rates."

I think that's a pretty good start!

[Furrowed Brow]

[Replying to post 1 by Furrowed Brow]

Most middle class people I know are going to get more money in their paychecks. Sounds good to me, even if idiots like Nancy Pelosi thing that $1000 is "crumbs for the middle class"...

Everyone likes to see more in their pay packet. But we've been here before. Reagan and Thatcher gave away tax breaks. The reason they gave was trickle down economics. But after forty years there is no evidence trickle down works and what small advantages and breaks are handed out to the the poorer percentiles are eventuality clawed back or eaten up by cost of living. It all seems like a bribe now that will cost more later. But I guess we will have to revisit this is ten years or maybe more to see how this plays out. My general expectation is that the bottom 70% will be at best no better off economically but politically will see an ever more entrenched plutocratic class turning into an aristocracy. More pessimistically I think this trend if it continues will see an eventually flip into fall blown authoritarianism as the elite classes use hard power to protect their wealth and status. But maybe a new FDR will come along with a new New Deal and save capitalism.

[bluethread]

[Replying to post 1 by Furrowed Brow]

Most middle class people I know are going to get more money in their paychecks. Sounds good to me, even if idiots like Nancy Pelosi thing that $1000 is "crumbs for the middle class"...

Everyone likes to see more in their pay packet. But we've been here before. Reagan and Thatcher gave away tax breaks. The reason they gave was trickle down economics. But after forty years there is no evidence trickle down works and what small advantages and breaks are handed out to the the poorer percentiles are eventuality clawed back or eaten up by cost of living. It all seems like a bribe now that will cost more later. But I guess we will have to revisit this is ten years or maybe more to see how this plays out. My general expectation is that the bottom 70% will be at best no better off economically but politically will see an ever more entrenched plutocratic class turning into an aristocracy. More pessimistically I think this trend if it continues will see an eventually flip into fall blown authoritarianism as the elite classes use hard power to protect their wealth and status. But maybe a new FDR will come along with a new New Deal and save capitalism.

The New Deal was authoritarianism. It applied the fascist principle of government direction of private industry to centralized political goals. The only reason that the Reagan taxes cuts only resulted in the economic boom of the ninties is that the Democrats reniged on the agreed on spending cuts. The slowdown under Bush was stopped under Clinton when he worked with Gingrich to balance the budget. The economic collapse due to the Bush/McCain/Obama conspiritoral bailout of the banking industry caused by creative marketing designed to offload subprime mortgages, that had been building up since Carter required banks to make them, ended that. Then the Democrat focus on Obamacare and Republican resistance limited increased taxation. However, the economic effect was nuliffied by continued deficit spending and "quantitative easing", resulting in miniscule growth. As the business community gained assurance that government regulation and taxes would be reduced, it went into gear, resulting in the rise in the stock market, increased employment and an increase private sector activity. The tax deal added to that, however, the fear of continued deficit spending may slow things down. In short, the economy is more complicated than just rich guys taking advantage of poor guys, and the government controlling everything. That said, the government can not guarantee a good economy, but it sure can ruin one.

[2ndRateMind]

[Replying to post 10 by bluethread]

Sure, there are all sorts of reasons why a progressive tax policy might be considered wrong by those who stand to lose out. But at the same time, there are all sorts of reasons why a regressive tax policy might be considered wrong by those who have little or nothing.

My sympathy lies with the latter. When need and mere desire clash, I will always hope that basic needs are met, before capricious desires.

Best wishes, 2RM.

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 10:

...
The removal of the individual mandate returns to the people the civil right to not be forced to buy a commodity.

When folk's health is a 'commodity', it should be no wonder that pork bellies are them the far tastier treat!

These are humans. HUMANS! Folks who they might be 'em a big ol' dumb bunch of 'em, but there they sit, being all human.

Granted, pork bellies are surely tastier'n humans, so hey, let's don't invest in us no humans!

[brianbbs67]

Hhhhmmm, this I had $18365 in deductions. Next year, I will have $24500. Seems better to me.