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Elijah John
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:22 pm  The atonement Reply with quote

Does the atonement of Christ make any sense?

Consider the option that Christ is God. Why would God need to sacrifice Himself to Himself in order to give Himself permission to forgive the contrite?

And if Christ is not God, does it make sense that one man,.even a perfect one could atone for the sins of all of humankind by his temporary death?

Also, if Christ is not God but a man, how is that not human sacrifice, an abomination?

After all. even a perfect man is still a man, right?
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 51: Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:02 pm
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Re: The atonement

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Checkpoint wrote:

Elijah John wrote:

Does the atonement of Christ make any sense?

Consider the option that Christ is God. Why would God need to sacrifice Himself to Himself in order to give Himself permission to forgive the contrite?

And if Christ is not God, does it make sense that one man,.even a perfect one could atone for the sins of all of humankind by his temporary death?

Also, if Christ is not God but a man, how is that not human sacrifice, an abomination?

After all. even a perfect man is still a man, right?


It is not about whether or not Christ is God.

It is not about whether or not it will make sense to us.

It is not "human sacrifice, an abomination", but about a ransom made by a redeemer as announced by the angel of God; Matthew 1:20-21.

Quote:
Romans 3:4

Absolutely not! Let God be true and every man a liar. As it is written: “So that You may be justified in Your words, and prevail in Your judgments.”

By " a " redeemer, so you have more than one I take it ?

Mat 1:20 But while he was thinking about this, an angel of Adonai appeared to him in a dream and said, "Yosef, son of David, do not be afraid to take Miryam home with you as your wife; for what has been conceived in her is from the Ruach HaKodesh.
Mat 1:21 She will give birth to a son, and you are to name him Yeshua, [which means 'Adonai saves,'] because he will save his people from their sins."
Adonai saves! " he " will save " his " people,,, From the " Ruach HaKodesh/Holy Spirit "..
I see, THE Redeemer...

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 52: Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:39 pm
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[Replying to post 48 by Elijah John]

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The author of Hebrews, for example says "without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sin". Yet John the Baptist performed "baptisms of repentance for the forgiveness of sins"

Seems John taught God's forgiveness without the shedding of blood, based on simple repentance!

Basically, it comes down to this. I see simple repentance and forgiveness from God as presenting far fewer logical problems than the doctrine of substitutionary, blood atonement.

The problems with the latter have been presented and debated many time and in many ways on these boards.


John the Baptist, huh?

The one Jesus called the greatest prophet, the one who named Jesus as "the lamb of God".

Repentance and forgiveness has always had the backdrop of the need for blood atonement.

Blood atonement can only be effective if there is repentance for forgiveness.

They are not in opposition but complement each other.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 53: Tue Apr 03, 2018 7:13 pm
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Checkpoint wrote:
but to your own inability to recognise the authority and authenticity of those scriptures.


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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 54: Tue Apr 03, 2018 7:16 pm
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showme wrote:
But go ahead, and hold on the false gospel of the false prophet Paul, as that is apparently your only hope, despite it being a false hope.


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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 55: Tue Apr 03, 2018 7:18 pm
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TripleZ wrote:

but you go on and on with this " if ", guess work everywhere, why ?


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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 56: Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:17 am
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Elijah John wrote:

Does the atonement of Christ make any sense?

Consider the option that Christ is God. Why would God need to sacrifice Himself to Himself in order to give Himself permission to forgive the contrite?

And if Christ is not God, does it make sense that one man,.even a perfect one could atone for the sins of all of humankind by his temporary death?

Also, if Christ is not God but a man, how is that not human sacrifice, an abomination?

After all. even a perfect man is still a man, right?

if,if if, if,if if ?

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 57: Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:22 am
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Elijah John wrote:

Does the atonement of Christ make any sense?

Consider the option that Christ is God. Why would God need to sacrifice Himself to Himself in order to give Himself permission to forgive the contrite?

And if Christ is not God, does it make sense that one man,.even a perfect one could atone for the sins of all of humankind by his temporary death?

Also, if Christ is not God but a man, how is that not human sacrifice, an abomination?

After all. even a perfect man is still a man, right?


Yes, he was the lamb of God, the Lamb without spot of blemish the only acceptable sacrifice for the sin of man. He being a flesh and blood man was OUR Messiah..

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 58: Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:44 pm
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TripleZ wrote:

if,if if, if,if if ?


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