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liamconnor
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:33 pm  The Trinity Explained by Non-Trinitarians Reply with quote

In the Apologetics section I would expect a lot of sarcasm and snide remarks for this question. Here, I hope to find more sincere responses.

Question: What do you think the Trinity means to Trinitarians?

Please note: this is not "What do you think about the Trinity?"

Thus If your response is sarcastic or demeaning, you are essentially saying, "Trinitarians scorn the trinity" which is obviously ridiculous, as they don't.

So, if you were to explain the Trinity to someone else without overt condemnation, how might you?
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 21: Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:59 am
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onewithhim wrote:

Pipiripi wrote:

The word Trinity is derived from the Latin word trinitas, which came from the Platonic test trias meaning three. Those it IS Philosophical in origin.
The word trinity was introduced by Tertullian (160-225 AD) who was a pagan turned Catholic theologian and one of the early Church fathers who wrote in the early third century to devine the teachings concerning the Godhead. His conclusion was that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit wete one substance, but not one in person.He also did not see the Son as a being coeternal with the Father.
There are many unanswered questions about the trinity doctrine and the most obvious is where I'm the Bible is explained. Scholars throughout history have acknowledged that it is not found in the Bible. Many will respond that the trinity doctrine isfond in 1John 5:7. But the italicized part of this verse that says, "For there are three that bear record in heaven the Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost: and this three are one," does not exist inthe earliest manuscript!

That is what I have learned as well, and thanks for your input. It is refreshing to have knowledgeable responses to the thread topic.

My friend there's many more passage that proofs, that this doctrine is a false one. If you want to know I will write it for you. Then you will have no doubts.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 22: Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:13 pm
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Pipiripi wrote:

onewithhim wrote:

Pipiripi wrote:

The word Trinity is derived from the Latin word trinitas, which came from the Platonic test trias meaning three. Those it IS Philosophical in origin.
The word trinity was introduced by Tertullian (160-225 AD) who was a pagan turned Catholic theologian and one of the early Church fathers who wrote in the early third century to devine the teachings concerning the Godhead. His conclusion was that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit wete one substance, but not one in person.He also did not see the Son as a being coeternal with the Father.
There are many unanswered questions about the trinity doctrine and the most obvious is where I'm the Bible is explained. Scholars throughout history have acknowledged that it is not found in the Bible. Many will respond that the trinity doctrine isfond in 1John 5:7. But the italicized part of this verse that says, "For there are three that bear record in heaven the Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost: and this three are one," does not exist inthe earliest manuscript!

That is what I have learned as well, and thanks for your input. It is refreshing to have knowledgeable responses to the thread topic.

My friend there's many more passage that proofs, that this doctrine is a false one. If you want to know I will write it for you. Then you will have no doubts.

Are you saying that the Trinity Doctrine is false? I have no issue with that. I know the Trinity Doctrine is false.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 23: Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:12 pm
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onewithhim wrote:

Pipiripi wrote:

onewithhim wrote:

Pipiripi wrote:

The word Trinity is derived from the Latin word trinitas, which came from the Platonic test trias meaning three. Those it IS Philosophical in origin.
The word trinity was introduced by Tertullian (160-225 AD) who was a pagan turned Catholic theologian and one of the early Church fathers who wrote in the early third century to devine the teachings concerning the Godhead. His conclusion was that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit wete one substance, but not one in person.He also did not see the Son as a being coeternal with the Father.
There are many unanswered questions about the trinity doctrine and the most obvious is where I'm the Bible is explained. Scholars throughout history have acknowledged that it is not found in the Bible. Many will respond that the trinity doctrine isfond in 1John 5:7. But the italicized part of this verse that says, "For there are three that bear record in heaven the Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost: and this three are one," does not exist inthe earliest manuscript!

That is what I have learned as well, and thanks for your input. It is refreshing to have knowledgeable responses to the thread topic.

My friend there's many more passage that proofs, that this doctrine is a false one. If you want to know I will write it for you. Then you will have no doubts.

Are you saying that the Trinity Doctrine is false? I have no issue with that. I know the Trinity Doctrine is false.

Let me write a little more for you.

It was about a century after Tertullian when Arianism began causing so many desputes that Constantine convence the first ecumenical Counsel in Church history to settle them. Arius was an elder in the Alexandrian Church in the early fourth century that thaugh Christ truly is the begotten Son of God and why God call His Father to state the obvious. A real Father and Son in other words. Opposing the teachings of Arius was Athanasius a deacon, also from Alexandria. His view was an early Trinitariansm where the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are said to be all the same one god but distinct from eachother make it impossible for them to be a real Father and Son. His view was further but worsening change to what Tertullian believed with the Holy Spirit not yet claimed to be a literal being. That came later. Mainstream history states Arius taught Christ was create, but the Church burned what Arius believed and some historians claim they altered records and falsely rumored that he taught Christ was created in order to discredit him. The Catholic Church is known for creating false historical records to their interpretation of events to hide the real truth at times.
If you want more I can write everyday a little for you. Put them together it is a very long story after ages. The best way to understand history or scripture is begin by the foundation. The roots of every historical issues.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 24: Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:21 pm
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Re: The Trinity Explained by Non-Trinitarians

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[Replying to liamconnor]

When I was a Trinitarian, it "simply" meant that the Godhead contained three "Persons", each one of them fully - ontologically - God. The Second Person, identified with the Logos, was said to have incarnated in the "flesh" - the human nature of Jesus of Nazareth. I would invoke that scenario if anyone asked about the Trinity.

I'm a Buddhist, but I saw the flaws in the Trinitarian idea long before I converted to Buddhism.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 25: Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:53 am
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Re: The Trinity Explained by Non-Trinitarians

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steveb1 wrote:

[Replying to liamconnor]

When I was a Trinitarian, it "simply" meant that the Godhead contained three "Persons", each one of them fully - ontologically - God. The Second Person, identified with the Logos, was said to have incarnated in the "flesh" - the human nature of Jesus of Nazareth. I would invoke that scenario if anyone asked about the Trinity.

I'm a Buddhist, but I saw the flaws in the Trinitarian idea long before I converted to Buddhism.
Okay, nice talking to you my friend. I'm a Seventh day Adventist and my beliefs is from the Pioneers. Because this new Adventist believed has fallen in the deception of Satan. They also believed in the trinity doctrine. That's why we few has to go out to proclaim the The Three Angels Message. Thanks for talking to me.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 26: Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:26 am
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Re: The Trinity Explained by Non-Trinitarians

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[Replying to post 25 by Pipiripi]


You're very welcome.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 27: Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:42 am
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Re: The Trinity Explained by Non-Trinitarians

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liamconnor wrote:

In the Apologetics section I would expect a lot of sarcasm and snide remarks for this question. Here, I hope to find more sincere responses.

Question: What do you think the Trinity means to Trinitarians?

Please note: this is not "What do you think about the Trinity?"

Thus If your response is sarcastic or demeaning, you are essentially saying, "Trinitarians scorn the trinity" which is obviously ridiculous, as they don't.

So, if you were to explain the Trinity to someone else without overt condemnation, how might you?


The Trinity is the Biblical concept of three beings (The Father, The Son, and the Holy Spirit) sharing the same nature, of God.

In the same way me, my son, and my wife are three distinct beings, sharing the same nature of Human.

If you can understand how three people can share the same nature as humans, you should be able to understand how three beings can share the same nature as "God".

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 28: Thu Mar 29, 2018 3:31 pm
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Divine Insight wrote:

When I was a Christian we didn't focus on trying to explain things like the trinity.

If we were to ask about it I'm quite sure the response from our pastors or Sunday school teachers would have been something like "God works in mysterious ways" or something like that.

In short, in the Church I grew up in people simply didn't worry about trying to have to explain how God "works". The idea was to just have faith that "With God all things are possible".

Never mind worrying about how God does his magic. That's not for us to ask.

Our denomination simply wasn't concerned with having to try to explain the physics of God.

We also never really thought of ourselves as "Trinitarians", although we clearly embraced that concept.

For me personally the problem became insurmountable when it came to Jesus being the same as the Father God. Never mind the physics of how that might actually work. The problem for me wasn't one of explaining the physics, it was more of a problem of a God sacrificing himself to himself as a sacrificial lamb to pay for the sins of man. There was also the huge problem of Jesus saying to the Father God, "Forgive them for they know not what they do".

Why should a Trinity entity need to tell itself how to judge people? Shouldn't it already know how it wants to judge people?

I mean seriously, these were the important question for me. Never mind the physics of how a single entity could have three unique facets. That would basically be irrelevant to the more important questions of how it could disagree with itself or have to instruct itself on how to judge people.

Not to be negative, but I personally believe that the whole idea of a "Trinity" was invented to avoid becoming a Polytheistic religion. They didn't want this to become just another version of Zeus and Apollo so they came up with this "Trinity" idea. And apparently people bought into it.

,, belief is not an item that we can buy from a " shop ", it is God Given..Satan never tires or stop form fooling us all about our Saviour and Salvation...even Yeshua Himself USED THE WORD OF GOD TO DEFEAT SATAN,,,the be a son one has to have a Father and God fathered His One True Flesh and Blood Son by and through His Holy Spirit. If you think it necessary to " Count " then that is your issue, take it up with God,Gods Spirit and Gods Son....

Rom 3:25 God put Yeshua forward as the kapparah for sin through his faithfulness in respect to his bloody sacrificial death. This vindicated God's righteousness; because, in his forbearance, he had passed over [with neither punishment nor remission] the sins people had committed in the past;
Rom 3:26 and it vindicates his righteousness in the present age by showing that he is righteous himself and is also the one who makes people righteous on the ground of Yeshua's faithfulness.
Rom 3:27 So what room is left for boasting? None at all! What kind of Torah excludes it? One that has to do with legalistic observance of rules? No, rather, a Torah that has to do with trusting.
Rom 3:28 Therefore, we hold the view that a person comes to be considered righteous by God on the ground of trusting, which has nothing to do with legalistic observance of Torah commands.
Rom 3:29 Or is God the God of the Jews only? Isn't he also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, he is indeed the God of the Gentiles;
Rom 3:30 because, as you will admit, God is one. Therefore, he will consider righteous the circumcised on the ground of trusting and the uncircumcised through that same trusting.
Rom 3:31 Does it follow that we abolish Torah by this trusting? Heaven forbid! On the contrary, we confirm Torah.

Eph 2:8 For you have been delivered by grace through trusting, and even this is not your accomplishment but God's gift.

we either have it or we do not but this I guess depends on if we want it ?

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 29: Fri Mar 30, 2018 5:04 pm
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Divine Insight wrote:

When I was a Christian we didn't focus on trying to explain things like the trinity.

If we were to ask about it I'm quite sure the response from our pastors or Sunday school teachers would have been something like "God works in mysterious ways" or something like that.

In short, in the Church I grew up in people simply didn't worry about trying to have to explain how God "works". The idea was to just have faith that "With God all things are possible".

Never mind worrying about how God does his magic. That's not for us to ask.

Our denomination simply wasn't concerned with having to try to explain the physics of God.

We also never really thought of ourselves as "Trinitarians", although we clearly embraced that concept.

For me personally the problem became insurmountable when it came to Jesus being the same as the Father God. Never mind the physics of how that might actually work. The problem for me wasn't one of explaining the physics, it was more of a problem of a God sacrificing himself to himself as a sacrificial lamb to pay for the sins of man. There was also the huge problem of Jesus saying to the Father God, "Forgive them for they know not what they do".

Why should a Trinity entity need to tell itself how to judge people? Shouldn't it already know how it wants to judge people?

I mean seriously, these were the important question for me. Never mind the physics of how a single entity could have three unique facets. That would basically be irrelevant to the more important questions of how it could disagree with itself or have to instruct itself on how to judge people.

Not to be negative, but I personally believe that the whole idea of a "Trinity" was invented to avoid becoming a Polytheistic religion. They didn't want this to become just another version of Zeus and Apollo so they came up with this "Trinity" idea. And apparently people bought into it.


you need to ask the cult RCC about this, us true believers in Yeshua do not have such a dogma as you suppose...
Why would you need to ask us mere mortal humans about God and His Son and His Spirit and NOT ask God Himself directly ?

Psa 51:11  Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
Isa 63:10  But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them.
Isa 63:11  Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where is he that put his holy Spirit within him?
Luk 11:13  If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
Eph 1:13  In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 4:30  And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
1Th 4:8  He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.

and;

Dan 3:25  He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.
Mat 4:3  And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
Mat 4:6  And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
Mat 8:29  And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?
Mat 14:33  Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.
Mat 26:63  But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.
Mat 27:40  And saying, Thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest it in three days, save thyself. If thou be the Son of God, come down from the cross.
Mat 27:43  He trusted in God; let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said, I am the Son of God.
Mat 27:54  Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.
Mar 1:1  The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;
Mar 3:11  And unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell down before him, and cried, saying, Thou art the Son of God.
Mar 15:39  And when the centurion, which stood over against him, saw that he so cried out, and gave up the ghost, he said, Truly this man was the Son of God.
Luk 1:35  And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Luk 4:3  And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread.
Luk 4:9  And he brought him to Jerusalem, and set him on a pinnacle of the temple, and said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down from hence:
Luk 4:41  And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God. And he rebuking them suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he was Christ.
Luk 8:28  When he saw Jesus, he cried out, and fell down before him, and with a loud voice said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God most high? I beseech thee, torment me not.
Luk 22:70  Then said they all, Art thou then the Son of God? And he said unto them, Ye say that I am.
Joh 1:34  And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.
Joh 1:49  Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.
Joh 3:18  He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Joh 5:25  Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
Joh 9:35  Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God?
Joh 10:36  Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
Joh 11:4  When Jesus heard that, he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby.
Joh 11:27  She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.
Joh 19:7  The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.
Joh 20:31  But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
Act 8:37  And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
Act 9:20  And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.
Rom 1:4  And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
2Co 1:19  For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us, even by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, was not yea and nay, but in him was yea.
Gal 2:20  I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Eph 4:13  Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Heb 4:14  Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
Heb 6:6  If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Heb 7:3  Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
Heb 10:29  Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
1Jn 3:8  He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 4:15  Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
1Jn 5:5  Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
1Jn 5:10  He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
1Jn 5:12  He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
1Jn 5:13  These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
1Jn 5:20  And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
Rev 2:18  And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;

I hope this helps you ?

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 30: Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:36 pm
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TripleZ wrote:

you need to ask the cult RCC about this


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