Why Paul?

Exploring the details of Christianity

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showme
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Post #21

Post by showme »

JehovahsWitness wrote:
Overcomer wrote: God says that he alone is God and he alone is Saviour. Jesus is called both God and Saviour over and over again in numerous books of the Bible by numerous authors. How do you reconcile that?
Jesus is not called "God" in "numerous books of the bible by numerous authors" (to my knowledge he is referred to as "god" once by a bible writer, in the book of Isaiah. The gospel writers reported that the Apostle Thomas called Jesus his "god". So that makes twice, hardly "numerous"

Jesus is, however often referred to in scripture as as our "savior". More on this point in post #19 below.
If you actually knew Yeshua's name, that might have set you straight. Yeshua means "YHWY saves". Yeshua is not YHWY, nor does he save. He is "anointed" as all kings, judges, and prophets of Israel. He is simply a son of God because he does the will of God, as do all the children of God. It is not good to cause the "little children" to stumble. For those that do, it would be better if they had not been born.

TripleZ
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Re: Why Paul?

Post #22

Post by TripleZ »

Elijah John wrote: These questions are open to all, but I would be especially interested in feedback from Evangelicals, Catholics and Jehovah's Witnesses.

Why do Jehovah's Witnesses honor Paul's opinions as "sacred scripture" when he never really mentions the Kingdom of God?

Also, Paul seems to place the name of Jesus above all, even above the name of Jehovah. Paul's own Bible states that there IS salvation in the name of the LORD (Jehovah) yet Paul contradicts, saying "there is no other name given among men by which we must be saved". (referring to the name of Jesus)

And if Paul's writings are sacred scripture, why do Evangelicals have women preachers (some quite prominent), and listen to women preachers, when Paul taught that women are not to speak in Church? (picking and choosing here??)

And for Catholics, Paul wasn't even a Pope. Why give his opinions more weight than say, a Papal Encyclical?

To tie it all together, why do so many regard Paul's pastoral advice and theological speculations as "sacred scripture"?
who is saying that these are " sacred scriptures " ?

Elijah John
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Re: Why Paul?

Post #23

Post by Elijah John »

TripleZ wrote: who is saying that these are " sacred scriptures " ?
Anyone who holds the Bible as it is as sacred, anyone who hold the NT especially as sacred. That's who. Sacred enough to be included in the canon of the New Testament.
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

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Post #24

Post by otseng »

showme wrote: The term "double minded" comes to mind. The destination of "double minded", is having no mind in the end. As for JWs, they follow their leaders.
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liamconnor
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Re: Why Paul?

Post #25

Post by liamconnor »

[Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]
Also, Paul seems to place the name of Jesus above all, even above the name of Jehovah. Paul's own Bible states that there IS salvation in the name of the LORD (Jehovah) yet Paul contradicts, saying "there is no other name given among men by which we must be saved". (referring to the name of Jesus)


This is not what Phil says. It says that Jesus (who already had that name) was granted the name above all names--namely YHWH. That Paul does not say "at the name of YHWH every knee will bow..." is probably due to several factors: 1) Jesus did not lose his original name; 2) Jews often shied from explicitly writing the tetragrammaton; 3) Jesus was still an appropriate name in context, for it means "God saves"; 4) Paul, in the next sentence, was going to link the name Jesus with the name YHWH, which, when rendered in Greek, was rendered Kurios; or "Lord" in English.
And if Paul's writings are sacred scripture, why do Evangelicals have women preachers (some quite prominent), and listen to women preachers, when Paul taught that women are not to speak in Church? (picking and choosing here??)


A rather broad generalization. There are numerous Evangelical churches that are obstinate in refusing these roles and positions to women. Why do some evangelicals? Perhaps modern pressure and influences (which, being moderns, they do understand) have overrided biblical principles which they do not understand. Perhaps they have studied the relevant passages and do not read them the same way.
And for Catholics, Paul wasn't even a Pope. Why give his opinions more weight than say, a Papal Encyclical?


I'm not Catholic, but I'll point out that Jesus wasn't a Pope either. Nor was Peter; or John; or any of the canonical authors. Clearly their are levels of divine hierarchy here.
To tie it all together, why do so many regard Paul's pastoral advice and theological speculations as "sacred scripture"?
Christians believe Paul was elected in a manner that none after him can claim: apostleship. Being elected by Jesus, it follows that Jesus probably had good reasons for electing him. For one thing, Paul interprets the death and resurrection of Jesus for us: if all we knew was that a man died and was resurrected and ascended to heaven, we could make nothing of it. Bizzarre, yes. Amazing, certainly. But significant, no.

TripleZ
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Re: Why Paul?

Post #26

Post by TripleZ »

Elijah John wrote: These questions are open to all, but I would be especially interested in feedback from Evangelicals, Catholics and Jehovah's Witnesses.

Why do Jehovah's Witnesses honor Paul's opinions as "sacred scripture" when he never really mentions the Kingdom of God?

Also, Paul seems to place the name of Jesus above all, even above the name of Jehovah. Paul's own Bible states that there IS salvation in the name of the LORD (Jehovah) yet Paul contradicts, saying "there is no other name given among men by which we must be saved". (referring to the name of Jesus)

And if Paul's writings are sacred scripture, why do Evangelicals have women preachers (some quite prominent), and listen to women preachers, when Paul taught that women are not to speak in Church? (picking and choosing here??)

And for Catholics, Paul wasn't even a Pope. Why give his opinions more weight than say, a Papal Encyclical?

To tie it all together, why do so many regard Paul's pastoral advice and theological speculations as "sacred scripture"?
why involve cults in all of this, this is a " christian " web site right

Luk 5:30 The P'rushim and their Torah-teachers protested indignantly against his talmidim, saying, "Why do you eat and drink with tax-collectors and sinners?"
Luk 5:31 It was Yeshua who answered them: "The ones who need a doctor aren't the healthy but the sick.
Luk 5:32 I have not come to call the 'righteous,' but rather to call sinners to turn to God from their sins."
Luk 5:33 Next they said to him, "Yochanan's talmidim are always fasting and davvening, and likewise the talmidim of the P'rushim; but yours go on eating and drinking."
Luk 5:34 Yeshua said to them, "Can you make wedding guests fast while the bridegroom is still with them?

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dianaiad
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Post #27

Post by dianaiad »

TripleZ wrote:
Elijah John wrote: These questions are open to all, but I would be especially interested in feedback from Evangelicals, Catholics and Jehovah's Witnesses.

Why do Jehovah's Witnesses honor Paul's opinions as "sacred scripture" when he never really mentions the Kingdom of God?

Also, Paul seems to place the name of Jesus above all, even above the name of Jehovah. Paul's own Bible states that there IS salvation in the name of the LORD (Jehovah) yet Paul contradicts, saying "there is no other name given among men by which we must be saved". (referring to the name of Jesus)

And if Paul's writings are sacred scripture, why do Evangelicals have women preachers (some quite prominent), and listen to women preachers, when Paul taught that women are not to speak in Church? (picking and choosing here??)

And for Catholics, Paul wasn't even a Pope. Why give his opinions more weight than say, a Papal Encyclical?

To tie it all together, why do so many regard Paul's pastoral advice and theological speculations as "sacred scripture"?
why involve cults in all of this, this is a " christian " web site right

Luk 5:30 The P'rushim and their Torah-teachers protested indignantly against his talmidim, saying, "Why do you eat and drink with tax-collectors and sinners?"
Luk 5:31 It was Yeshua who answered them: "The ones who need a doctor aren't the healthy but the sick.
Luk 5:32 I have not come to call the 'righteous,' but rather to call sinners to turn to God from their sins."
Luk 5:33 Next they said to him, "Yochanan's talmidim are always fasting and davvening, and likewise the talmidim of the P'rushim; but yours go on eating and drinking."
Luk 5:34 Yeshua said to them, "Can you make wedding guests fast while the bridegroom is still with them?
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Post #28

Post by brianbbs67 »

I would call this debate back to civility. Everyone has made points. Some agree, some don't. Such is life. We all, I hope, seek first wisdom(that is told to us early in the OT). I think we do. Entertain thoughts you disagree with for learnings sake. Don't accept them, if you don't, but don't limit learning by learned reasoning only. No man understands the Lord completely. Or ever will. But, we can try to draw nigh unto Him, so that He will draw nigh unto us.

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