The Joy of Atheism

[Jagella]

Christian apologists like William Lane Craig and Ravi Zacharias like to tell people that life without God (the Christian God) is absurd and without a moral basis. It will lead to immorality and social disruption. It will harm the individual in this life and especially in the supposed hereafter. Society itself will crumble without the ties that only God can provide.

Allow me to give my own version of what it's like to live without God which in a very real sense is the life we all live although many of us may not realize it.

I was a born-again, Pentecostal Christian in the mid 1980s. I read the Bible believing everything it said, I prayed, I exercised faith, I regularly attended church, and I eagerly looked forward to meeting Jesus "in the air" to leave this sinful earth and to live forever with Jesus in paradise.

Something was wrong, however. I kept having these feelings that what I was believing wasn't true, and that I was crazy for believing it. My life as a Christian went from good to bad as I saw the hypocrisy of my fellow Christians and the failure of prayer. The miracles I read about in the Bible seemed to belong to another world and surely not this world. I learned that the faith healers were fake stealers ripping off poor, old, and sick people. Perhaps worst of all was the terrible thoughts I had that all those non-Christian people in the world were destined for eternity in a lake of fire if they didn't repent and believe the gospel.

Like I feared, I started having some emotional problems. I became angry toward people especially those Christians I began to see as hypocrites and sinners. One night I remember having a nightmare about God. I was in a misty void, and I called out: "Is that you, Lord?" I woke up with a shudder. I told my pastor about the nightmare and that before my mind goes Christianity goes.

Christianity soon went, all right. I studied my Bible, and I was beginning to find errors in it. I discovered contradictions, false prophecies, and worst of all atrocities ordered by God. My pastor was unable to provide any good explanation for them. Finally one day it dawned on me that there's just no way that the claims of Christianity are true. The God of the Bible cannot exist--it's logically impossible.

I soon found myself an atheist. Gone forever was that invisible monster in the sky and all his little monsters. The lake of fire was a myth used to frighten fools into belief. It was a lie--the biggest lie ever inflicted on humankind. I was so lucky to be free of that evil, the evil that never again haunted my dreams.

So my becoming an atheist is the best thing I've ever done. I love being free of the gods and the ridiculous myths that liars use to try to make them seem real. It's so much better being the best person I can think of being.

So as for all of you, why not join me in freedom from the gods and religion? Stay home Sunday mornings and get some good sleep. When you get up, have a good breakfast. If you have a partner, invite him or her over for a nice visit. Order some pizza, crack open a beer or softdrink, pop a good movie into the DVD player--maybe a good porn flick--and enjoy yourself. If you're both consenting adults, then have some great sex together. It doesn't matter what kind of sex; it can be straight, gay, or lesbian. Just make sure to have a good time and make the best out of this one short life we all have.

There's so much more I can tell you about living as an atheist, but for now let me ask...

Why not join us and experience the joy of atheism?

[imhereforyou]

[Replying to post 1 by Jagella]



There is something beneficial for some to believe in 'something greater than yourself', be that god, God, Jumbo, whatever. And if that works for you, and you keep it to you and yours, that's great! I couldn't care more (or less for that matter).
If not believing in anything like that works for you, great! So long as you keep it to you and yours as well. I couldn't care more (or less).
For others, they like something in the middle. Others like to believe in something, then nothing (or vice versa). All fine, too.
But if you believe in something (or nothing) and it doesn't fulfill what you really want and need internally, then you should search it out. And no one should make anyone feel bad or different for searching and finding what makes them happy.
Just because you have something to believe in (or not) doesn't always equate to happiness. We are individuals. As such, we need individual things to make us happy. Just be honest with yourself, don't badger any others who do things differently and don't interfere with your life, and be happy and content, theist, agnostic, atheist or whatever.

[Jagella]

[Replying to post 20 by bluethread]

What's to join? Join you in NOT doing something?

Sure. Stop doing religion.

"True science" is not exclusive to those who do not believe in deities.

That is correct. Even god believers can do good, credible science. However, science can destroy belief in gods if you take science to its logical conclusion.

A theist can also believe in a deity or deities that provide no rewards.

True, but gods who do not dole out the goodies are rare. About the only such god I can think of is the god of deism. Did you notice that very few people are deists? They evidently are not attracted to a god who offers no heavenly reward. Gods who can offer paradise of some kind are much more popular.

So, it appears that you are asking me to join some imaginary club that has no framework of it's own, but simply opposes the frameworks of other groups.

Atheism doesn't really oppose anything. It's the absence of theistic belief. To become an atheist involves losing belief in gods.

So, you are not asking me to join atheism, but join anti-theism?

Sure--why not? Take it one step further and learn why theism is a lie and a delusion. Then tell people that it is a lie and a delusion.

I just find it interesting that a thread on The Joy of Atheism would be primarily focused on finding fault with theism.

Well, recognizing the faults of theism naturally results in atheism. In other words, understanding that theism is a delusion logically results in atheism.

Is that the true joy of Atheism, or is there some other joyful experience that is not available to those who believe in a deity or deities?

I have already posted that the joy of atheism is realizing that one is free of theism and its attendant evils. It is like the joy of a prisoner who has escaped his prison. Did you ever see The Shawshank Redemption?

[bluethread]

[Replying to post 20 by bluethread]

What's to join? Join you in NOT doing something?

Sure. Stop doing religion.

"True science" is not exclusive to those who do not believe in deities.

That is correct. Even god believers can do good, credible science. However, science can destroy belief in gods if you take science to its logical conclusion.

So, are you saying that applying logic to things that can be scientifically verified here on earth today can explain the nature of everything in the universe? Also, that is not atheism. That is scientific rationalism.

A theist can also believe in a deity or deities that provide no rewards.

True, but gods who do not dole out the goodies are rare. About the only such god I can think of is the god of deism. Did you notice that very few people are deists? They evidently are not attracted to a god who offers no heavenly reward. Gods who can offer paradise of some kind are much more popular.

However, we are talking about the Joy of Atheism. The "joy" of not receiving something is not exclusive to Atheists, deists for example. Therefore, one need not be an Atheist to have that "joy".

So, it appears that you are asking me to join some imaginary club that has no framework of it's own, but simply opposes the frameworks of other groups.

Atheism doesn't really oppose anything. It's the absence of theistic belief. To become an atheist involves losing belief in gods.

It doesn't involve acquiring other things either. So, what is the "joy" that you are talking about? The "joy" of nothing?

So, you are not asking me to join atheism, but join anti-theism?

Sure--why not? Take it one step further and learn why theism is a lie and a delusion. Then tell people that it is a lie and a delusion.

However, that is not what you proposed in the OP. As you just said, "Atheism doesn't really oppose anything." So, what you are proposing is not the joy of Atheism.

I just find it interesting that a thread on The Joy of Atheism would be primarily focused on finding fault with theism.

Well, recognizing the faults of theism naturally results in atheism. In other words, understanding that theism is a delusion logically results in atheism.

However, as you stated, "Atheism doesn't really oppose anything." Then opposing theism is not Atheism. Sure, opposing theism my lead to Atheism, but it can also lead to Agnosticism.

Is that the true joy of Atheism, or is there some other joyful experience that is not available to those who believe in a deity or deities?

I have already posted that the joy of atheism is realizing that one is free of theism and its attendant evils. It is like the joy of a prisoner who has escaped his prison. Did you ever see The Shawshank Redemption?

Don't you mean the prisoner that realizes that there is not prison? By the way, what are the attendent evils of theism. Not just evils associated with some forms of theism, but the evils inherent in all forms of theism?

[Goose]

Stay home Sunday mornings and get some good sleep.

Well we have young children still so we're up early anyway on Sundays. We may as well do something as a family and go to church.

When you get up, have a good breakfast.

Yep we do that as a family on Sundays too.

If you have a partner, invite him or her over for a nice visit.

Well I live with my wife so...

Order some pizza, crack open a beer or softdrink, pop a good movie into the DVD player--maybe a good porn flick--and enjoy yourself.

You drink beer Sunday mornings? I usually eat my pizza and a have few brown pops Saturday night. We usually do a movie with the kids so the porn thing just isn't in the cards.

If you're both consenting adults, then have some great sex together.

Yep we do that too. The wife and I have a fantatic sex life. Seriously, she's instatiable. Broken a few beds and soaked many a mattress

It doesn't matter what kind of sex; it can be straight, gay, or lesbian.

Well we are both straight so we do the heterosexual thing. Please don't judge us for that.

Just make sure to have a good time and make the best out of this one short life we all have.

Well we already have a fantastic life.

Why not join us and experience the joy of atheism?

Well it seems to me the only discernable "joy" that atheism offers that I'm not currently enjoying is sleeping in Sundays and the freedom to watch pornography. Since I wouldn't be able to sleep in anyway and since porn just isn't enough of a draw for me, I'll pass on your offer. But thanks anyway.

[Jagella]

[Replying to post 19 by marco]

I think if people are fully subscribed to the notion of a merciful and loving God, death has no sting as evidenced by the willingness of martyrs to endure horrendous pain.

Oh, I think those martyrs felt a terrible sting as they died. We can never know for sure, but they could have changed their minds as they died realizing then that their religion wasn't worth dying for.

There may well be a joy in atheism that comes from the realisation that our childhood tales were nonsensical; but I don't see that this joy, if it exists, is superior to that felt by believers. They seem to be endowed with an unshakeable certainty; why would one want to surrender it? Some may even generously show pity for the poor atheist who grabs whatever pleasure can be found in the few minutes of existence. Their beliefs may be false; their happiness is real enough.

I'm not so sure if theists are as happy as they claim. I've known plenty of Christians who are very angry and miserable and who live messed-up lives. I don't envy them at all. But who knows--maybe some sick people are made happy believing in an invisible man in the sky who tortures their hated enemies. I don't want that kind of happiness.

[Jagella]

[Replying to post 24 by Goose]

Well it seems to me the only discernable "joy" that atheism offers that I'm not currently enjoying is sleeping in Sundays and the freedom to watch pornography. Since I wouldn't be able to sleep in anyway and since porn just isn't enough of a draw for me, I'll pass on your offer. But thanks anyway.

You missed this part of the OP:

Gone forever was that invisible monster in the sky and all his little monsters. The lake of fire was a myth used to frighten fools into belief. It was a lie--the biggest lie ever inflicted on humankind. I was so lucky to be free of that evil, the evil that never again haunted my dreams.

So my becoming an atheist is the best thing I've ever done. I love being free of the gods and the ridiculous myths that liars use to try to make them seem real. It's so much better being the best person I can think of being.

So the other advantages of being an atheist are the following:

• *Gone forever was that invisible monster in the sky and all his little monsters.
  *I love being free of the gods...
  *...and the ridiculous myths that liars use to try to make them seem real.
  *The lake of fire was a myth used to frighten fools into belief.
  *I was so lucky to be free of that evil...
  *... the evil that never again haunted my dreams.
  *It's so much better being the best person I can think of being.

But maybe some people actually enjoy hanging onto the evils on my list that I freed myself from.

[Goose]

You missed this part of the OP:

I didn’t miss it. It just doesn’t apply to me. Let me explain.

So the other advantages of being an atheist are the following:


*Gone forever was that invisible monster in the sky and all his little monsters.

But I don’t view God as a monster.

*I love being free of the gods...

I love being connected to God.

*...and the ridiculous myths that liars use to try to make them seem real.

I don’t view them as myths and lies.

*The lake of fire was a myth used to frighten fools into belief.

I don’t hold that view of hell.

*I was so lucky to be free of that evil...

I don’t think of it as evil.

*... the evil that never again haunted my dreams.

I’ve never had these kinds of episodes.

*It's so much better being the best person I can think of being.

I feel great about myself right now as a Christian.

But maybe some people actually enjoy hanging onto the evils on my list that I freed myself from.

It seems to me the only joy of atheism that you have offered so far which I’m not currently experiencing is the freedom to:

• 1. watch pornography
  2. have casual sex with friends/strangers
  3. have sex with men if I want.

As for (1), I’ve watched porn in the past (yes, I can admit that). I don’t see the big deal. I found it boring. It’s actors with fake breasts and fake orgasms. I’d rather be having real sex with my wife than watching on a computer screen a staged production with actors. Know what I mean? Well, maybe you don’t.

As for (2), I don’t have a desire to have sex with anyone other than my wife. I think she’s super hot. And she’ll do pretty much anything I want in bed. Frankly, it’s awesome.

As for (3), well I’m straight as an arrow. Not interested in sex with men.

So aside from 1-3 what else does atheism really offer as a joy that I’m not currently experiencing?

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 27:

I have some reason to conclude we're a-fussin' us on reports regarding the Christian god, and so here we go...

...
But I don’t view God as a monster.

Evidence of the errant thinking involved when folks set 'em to worship the Christian god it is they set 'em to a-worship.

It seems to me the only joy of atheism that you have offered so far which I’m not currently experiencing is the freedom to:
1. watch pornography
2. have casual sex with friends/strangers
3. have sex with men if I want.

As for (1), I’ve watched porn in the past (yes, I can admit that). I don’t see the big deal. I found it boring. It’s actors with fake breasts and fake orgasms. I’d rather be having real sex with my wife than watching on a computer screen a staged production with actors. Know what I mean? Well, maybe you don’t.

Doesn't figure in making porn with one's wife. And a Chinese midget.

As for (2), I don’t have a desire to have sex with anyone other than my wife. I think she’s super hot. And she’ll do pretty much anything I want in bed. Frankly, it’s awesome.

Plenty fair. And the way you tell it, I'm startin' to wanna have me sex with 'er too (With all respect and 'pologies to you and your missus for having said it - what I'm getting at here is our own personal kinks, and how some gods'll get 'em all upset about 'em).

As for (3), well I’m straight as an arrow. Not interested in sex with men.

Heck, I'd kiss me a man to know it'd upset me a homophobic god that I did me do it, but yeah, ick. Only it is, the god the Christians rejoice in' a-rejoicin' 'em in expects us to stone us each and every homosexual it is that they was ever 'em them one of 'em.

God is, I propose, a Republican on our bedroom affairs, and a Democrat on our let's help us the poor and the needy. Only don't it beat all, looks like the don't y'all be y'all no homo is more important to the Christian god than it is to the y'all help out the poor and the needy among ya, long as it is, they ain't bein' 'em all poor and needy simultaneously to it is, they's bein' 'em homos when it is they do.

So aside from 1-3 what else does atheism really offer as a joy that I’m not currently experiencing?

'Parently none.

Long as the homos get 'em stoned to 'em their deaths, the Christian god, and his promoters'll be happier'n him and them a frog on a stump.

[Jagella]

[Replying to post 27 by Goose]

But I don’t view God as a monster.

If you don't consider something that ordered genocide, rape, and torture a monster, then what could be a monster?

I don’t hold that view of hell.

I see. Many Christians nowadays have finally agreed with what we atheists have been saying for so long and have remodeled hell. The flames have been extinguished for one thing. Other Christians have shut down hell all-together. So you're moving in my direction.

I don’t think of it as evil.

Sorry, but I disagree. Genocide, rape, and torture is evil in my book.

As for (1), I’ve watched porn in the past (yes, I can admit that). I don’t see the big deal. I found it boring. It’s actors with fake breasts and fake orgasms.

Actually, I go for the soft-core stuff. Hot chicks in lingerie and bikinis!

I’d rather be having real sex with my wife than watching on a computer screen a staged production with actors. Know what I mean? Well, maybe you don’t.

I know your wife is probably looking over your shoulder as you write this!

As for (3), well I’m straight as an arrow. Not interested in sex with men.

I'm not gay either, but I believe gays and lesbians should be free to have sex and even marry if they wish. All those stupid rules from religion privilege some people over others. As an atheist I'm free to see sex as perfectly acceptable as long as nobody is harmed.

So I must admit that you appear to have some joy in your life, but I'f rather have joy that's based on openness and true compassion. I don't see religion as offering any such joy. Frankly, I'd rather be miserable than to have the Christian version of joy.

[Jagella]

[Replying to post 28 by JoeyKnothead]

And the way you tell it, I'm startin' to wanna have me sex with 'er too...

I'm not so sure of that!