Every pantheon has its "high God" it's Creator God

[Elijah John]

Every pantheon has it's "high Creator God" and it's offspring. Including son and daughter gods.

Jehovah's Witnesses rightly (from my pov) claim there is only one God, the Father, Jehovah.

Unlike Trinitarians, JWs readily admit that Jesus, the Son, is inferior to the Father Jehovah. Arians taught something very similar.

But can't Arian cosmology be considered a form of polytheism as well? After all, even pagan pantheons pretty much all have only one (sometimes two. male and female) Creator gods.

Arians like JW's ascribe to Jesus a superhuman status, embracing the Pauline concept that Jesus is the "firstborn of all Creation, though whom all things are created".

For debate, how does even such "monotheistic" Christian cosmology differ from the pagan pantheons?

Can't the JW cosmic view be considered a form of "bi-theism" with one Creator God, and one main created, lesser God, ie Michael, the pre-incarnate Jesus?

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]

Well I don't know (or care) about how others define our worship. If worshipping the One Supreme Creator and unique King of the Universe but recognicing the powers talents and role of other created beings makes us "XY or Z" so be it. For all Jehovah's Witesses what is essential is to ONLY worship Jehovah and nobody and nothing else. Ever.

• Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe humans are the most superior life forms created. We believe all angelic (spirit) creatures (including the first created being The Logos/Jesus) are superior in intellgence, power and capacity to human life. That doesn't mean God necessarily loves or values angels (spirit beings) more or less because of this, (He values the worship and loyalty of all his children, human or spirit) but they remain more powerful in every way to humans.

I think because as humans we have a tendancy to adore or worship that which is more powerful people find it difficult to understand how JWs can recognize the existence of superior lifeforms and NOT worship them, but that is in fact the case. I will leave others to catagorize what that makes us (neo-arian-bi-theistic-post-modernist-panatheonical-millennialist... whatever), for me, that just makes us JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES.

PSALME 83:18 King James Version (KJV)


That men may know that thou, whose name alone is Jehovah, art the most high over all the earth.

[brianbbs67]

Neo-Arian, that made me chuckle.

As to the OP, I think most Christian type religions acknowledge, that there is only one God, creator of heaven and earth. Some, however, believe he has multiple personality disorder or similar.

Of course, logic would dictate, if you were an omnipitant/Omniscient being, would not you create other great beings to help you control creation more easily?

Why do everything yourself if you don't have too and it adds to the game/experience?

[Overcomer]

Elijah John wrote:

For debate, how does even such "monotheistic" Christian cosmology differ from the pagan pantheons?

The Christian God is one God who exists in three persons. That makes the God of the Bible unique. Pantheons of gods involve beings that are ontologically separate. The Christian God is ontologically one.

Also, note that pagan gods are part and parcel of creation while the God of the Bible stands outside of creation and, in fact, created the world ex nihilo.

See here:

https://www.knowingthebible.net/pagan-mythologies

Jehovah’s Witness wrote:

For all Jehovah's Witesses what is essential is to ONLY worship Jehovah and nobody and nothing else. Ever

.

Then you must have a problem with people worshipping Jesus as recorded in the Bible.

Matthew 2:11: And going into the house they saw the child with Mary his mother, and they fell down and worshiped him.

Matthew 14:33: And those in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.�

Matthew 28:9-10: And behold, Jesus met them and said, “Greetings!� And they came up and took hold of his feet and worshiped him.

Matthew 28:16-17: Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them. 17 And when they saw him they worshiped him . . . .

Luke 24:51: While he blessed them, he parted from them and was carried up into heaven. And they worshiped him and returned to Jerusalem with great joy.

John 9:37-38: Jesus said to him, “You have seen him, and it is he who is speaking to you.� He said, “Lord, I believe,� and he worshiped him.

Hebrews 1:6: And again, when he brings the firstborn into the world, he says, “Let all God’s angels worship him.�

Revelation 22:3: No longer will there be anything accursed, but the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and his servants will worship him.

And then there’s Matthew 21:9: “So they took branches of palm trees and went out to meet him, crying out, ‘Hosanna! Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord, even the King of Israel!’� (Matthew 21:9; John 12:13)

The word 'hosanna' is a plea for salvation and an expression of adoration. This word used by the crowd is definitely a form of worship.

See https://www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-worshipped.html

Brianbbs67 wrote:

Of course, logic would dictate, if you were an omnipitant/Omniscient being, would not you create other great beings to help you control creation more easily?

But if he’s omnipotent and omniscient, he wouldn’t need any help. Nothing would be hard for him. Therefore, he wouldn't have to create other beings to make things easier for himself.

[Willum]

Interesting.
But I have always thought the idea of one all-powerful god had to have come from the realization that two or more all-powerful gods by necessity had to be the same god.

Obviously, polytheistic religions came before monotheistic ones. Eventually someone realized that Zeus as chief all-powerful god, and his henchmen, also being all powerful, HAD to be different aspects the same god.

Thus many all-powerful gods, must be one, otherwise, no one of them would be all powerful.

And thus monotheism was born.

[JehovahsWitness]

For all Jehovah's Witesses what is essential is to ONLY worship Jehovah and nobody and nothing else. Ever

.

Then you must have a problem with people worshipping Jesus as recorded in the Bible.

What other people do is not my problem. Each one is responsible for their own actions.

Jehovah's Witnesses understand what the word "worship" encompasses
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 947#916947


JW

[brianbbs67]

Brianbbs67 wrote:

Of course, logic would dictate, if you were an omnipitant/Omniscient being, would not you create other great beings to help you control creation more easily?

But if he’s omnipotent and omniscient, he wouldn’t need any help. Nothing would be hard for him. Therefore, he wouldn't have to create other beings to make things easier for himself.

He didn't need any help. He just chose to arrange things as they are to His benefit. And maybe ours too. I truly don't know how He works. I just know He does.

[shnarkle]

[Replying to post 2 by JehovahsWitness]

people find it difficult to understand how JWs can recognize the existence of superior lifeforms and NOT worship them, but that is in fact the case.

Not according to JW organization literature.

No human has ever seen God because he is A SPIRIT (emphasis mine throughout),which means that he is A HIGHER FORM OF LIFE than the physical creatures...etc.

Quoted from "Good News From God"

To say that God is a spirit or a form or type of life is to make God part of the created order. He is part of a system of classification rather than the creator of that system of classification. It makes no sense and other than the bible's use of figurative speech, e.g. personification etc. it isn't biblical.

[shnarkle]

[Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]

Arians like JW's ascribe to Jesus a superhuman status, embracing the Pauline concept that Jesus is the "firstborn of all Creation, though whom all things are created".

This isn't accurate. Superhuman status is still human and therefore part of the created order of things. This isn't Paul's concept or the gospel writer of John either. JW's believe that Jesus is the first thing God created, and Jesus then created everything else. The bible doesn't suggest anything like this. Jesus is the name given to a human being, and there was no human being creating anything according to scripture.

For debate, how does even such "monotheistic" Christian cosmology differ from the pagan pantheons?

There doesn't seem to be much difference at all.

Can't the JW cosmic view be considered a form of "bi-theism" with one Creator God, and one main created, lesser God, ie Michael, the pre-incarnate Jesus?

It seems to be an accurate comparison. The new testament authors don't see it that way though. The word of God is God's word, but there is no way for God to communicate or create without speaking/breathing his word. He doesn't create his word in the form of a human being to create the world. He simply speaks the world into existence. The word is essentially the ground of existence that originates from the father, but the father cannot be a father without the son, and cannot exist except in, with, and through the manifest word.

[brianbbs67]

[Replying to post 9 by shnarkle]

I like the response. Jesus was not his name though, as it is a transliteration of Ieonous which was the best equivalent for the hebrew name(in Greek). Which was , most probably , Jesuah/yeshua/Yehoshua(Joshua). But, we don't even know that yet for sure.

I would add to The Father being a father only to Jesus, there were sons of God early on and Christ was the son of man. To me this means, He(god), created many sons of different types, Jesus was His only son of man.