On what basis, is the claim

Argue for and against Christianity

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
Elijah John
Savant
Posts: 12235
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:23 pm
Location: New England
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 16 times

On what basis, is the claim

Post #1

Post by Elijah John »

At least two members here have used pretty much the exact same words to make the claim:
There can be no contradictions contained within the Bible.
For debate:

-On what basis can such a claim be made?

-Is such a claim the start of a circular argument?

-Isn't the quoted claim simply refuted by illustrating even one significant contradiction contained within the Bible?

And finally,

-even if it is demonstrated that there are, indeed, significant contradictions contained within the Bible, does that necessarily invalidate the Good Book? Even as a source of spiritual inspiration? If so, why so.

Please note, that the OP is not asking for the enumeration of the contradictions within the Bible per se, but fair game if that is part of your argument.

The OP seeks clarification as to why such a claim is made, and how such a claim can be supported.
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

User avatar
Aetixintro
Site Supporter
Posts: 918
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:18 am
Location: Metropolitan-Oslo, Norway, Europe
Has thanked: 431 times
Been thanked: 27 times
Contact:

Re: On what basis, is the claim

Post #2

Post by Aetixintro »

[Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]
-On what basis can such a claim be made?
For example, taking God to be the creator of all physical and that the primordial Devil is the counterpart in a battle to win souls to one's domain, Heaven and Hell, without going further than that. One should also remember that, initially, every person is God's temple, living life according to God's will, that is, that of goodness and toward Heaven as one dies. It seems also straight to assume that The 10 Commandments and the Golden Rule are created and communicated to humanity for the sake of goodness, entirely. "Not to imply that God has given rules to be violated so that souls are sent to Hell." Thus, to live with God's blessing or salvation (toward Heaven) seems to nullify the need for any (other) theodicy. All this says quite clearly that there can be no contradictions in the Bible despite the fact that the Bible is written by human beings "by divine commands" or intuitions or innermost sincere feelings or intellectual worries for the grandness of planet Earth and the Universe with it.
-Is such a claim the start of a circular argument?
No, I don't think so. It spells out in sincerity from existing in reality "regardless of what people by school books say in 2018". That is, the reality still must be considered fantastic. Btw, circularity suggests defeat on grounds of the Bible and shouldn't be admitted, I think, because no such thing is necessary. The Bible speaks for the best.
-Isn't the quoted claim simply refuted by illustrating even one significant contradiction contained within the Bible?
No. The Bible is written by human beings and human beings have wishes toward this and that end, "despite divine commands". One may write that "God creates evil" in wanting to use a linguistic whip to keep people in check, as one example. It must be understood that people 1500 years ago, along with oral tradition, have had no database to check for logical inconsistencies and all that. We have that now and I, for one, want to undertake a teaching project, making it possible for people today to hold religious beliefs stalwartly! This is also for the last question of the OP.

8-) :study: :D
I'm cool! :) - Stronger Religion every day! Also by "mathematical Religion", the eternal forms, God closing the door on corrupt humanity, possibly!

Inigo Montoya
Guru
Posts: 1333
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:45 pm

Post #3

Post by Inigo Montoya »

At face value the claim makes perfect sense as is. I read it in much the same way as the Christian faith being in vain if Jesus wasn't resurrected. Which is to say if this anthology is "spirit-breathed, infallible and the perfect word of the creator of the cosmos", it's impossible to contain contradiction.

What I find more telling is that in an OP asking for said contradictions, we already see 9 pages of defense against the proposition. In another OP that asks if it even matters, well, crickets...

User avatar
Tcg
Savant
Posts: 8495
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:01 am
Location: Third Stone
Has thanked: 2147 times
Been thanked: 2295 times

Re: On what basis, is the claim

Post #4

Post by Tcg »

Aetixintro wrote: [Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]
-On what basis can such a claim be made?
For example, taking God to be the creator of all physical and that the primordial Devil is the counterpart in a battle to win souls to one's domain, Heaven and Hell, without going further than that. One should also remember that, initially, every person is God's temple, living life according to God's will, that is, that of goodness and toward Heaven as one dies. It seems also straight to assume that The 10 Commandments and the Golden Rule are created and communicated to humanity for the sake of goodness, entirely. "Not to imply that God has given rules to be violated so that souls are sent to Hell." Thus, to live with God's blessing or salvation (toward Heaven) seems to nullify the need for any (other) theodicy.

- All this says quite clearly that there can be no contradictions in the Bible...
This conclusion is quite the leap. Other than some vague reference to the 10 commandments and the golden rule, you haven't mentioned the bible at all.

More importantly, whatever god this is you are referring to, you've not provided the slightest bit of evidence that it had anything to do with the bible.

Perhaps you misunderstood the question.

User avatar
Tcg
Savant
Posts: 8495
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:01 am
Location: Third Stone
Has thanked: 2147 times
Been thanked: 2295 times

Re: On what basis, is the claim

Post #5

Post by Tcg »

Elijah John wrote: At least two members here have used pretty much the exact same words to make the claim:
There can be no contradictions contained within the Bible.
For debate:

-On what basis can such a claim be made?
The one I see most often is pure denial.

-Is such a claim the start of a circular argument?
It is nothing but a bald assertion.

-Isn't the quoted claim simply refuted by illustrating even one significant contradiction contained within the Bible?
Yes. That is why denial is so important for those who make this claim. They have to use denial to avoid admitting any contradictions.

And finally,

-even if it is demonstrated that there are, indeed, significant contradictions contained within the Bible, does that necessarily invalidate the Good Book? Even as a source of spiritual inspiration? If so, why so.
People can use absolutely anything for spiritual inspiration. Certainly a flawed book would qualify.

User avatar
JoeyKnothead
Banned
Banned
Posts: 20879
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:59 am
Location: Here
Has thanked: 4093 times
Been thanked: 2572 times

Post #6

Post by JoeyKnothead »

From the OP:
On what basis, is the claim
"there can be no contradictions contained within the Bible"
They ain't read it.
I might be Teddy Roosevelt, but I ain't.
-Punkinhead Martin

Post Reply