Was there more than one Messiah?

[polonius]

Jesus never actually claimed himself that we was the Messiah although he did not correct others who said he was. In Jewish belief, the Messiah was to descend from David and sit on his throne as king of the Jews.

It was this that really got Jesus crucified. Claiming that one was king of the Jews was insurrection punishable by crucifixion.

Did any other Jews in Jesus's time claim to be king of the Jews? If so, what happened to them?

[JehovahsWitness]

There is no "evidence" that Jesus suggested anything.

So on what do you base your following conclusion?

Obviously Jesus did not claim to be King of the Jews, but perhaps one of messiahs..

[polonius]

There is no "evidence" that Jesus suggested anything.

So on what do you base your following conclusion?

Obviously Jesus did not claim to be King of the Jews, but perhaps one of messiahs..

RESPONSE: The lack of evidence. And regarding "perhaps one of the messiahs" only John's story (written in 95 AD or more than 60 years after the fact) seems to make any such reference.

[polonius]

http://www.jewfaq.org/mashiach.htm

The word "mashiach" does not mean "savior." The notion of an innocent, divine or semi-divine being who will sacrifice himself to save us from the consequences of our own sins is a purely Christian concept that has no basis in Jewish thought. Unfortunately, this Christian concept has become so deeply ingrained in the English word "messiah" that this English word can no longer be used to refer to the Jewish concept. The word "mashiach" will be used throughout this page.

On the contrary, another Jew born about a century later came far closer to fulfilling the messianic ideal than Jesus did. His name was Shimeon ben Kosiba, known as Bar Kokhba (son of a star), and he was a charismatic, brilliant, but brutal warlord. Rabbi Akiba, one of the greatest scholars in Jewish history, believed that Bar Kokhba was the mashiach. Bar Kokhba fought a war against the Roman Empire, catching the Tenth Legion by surprise and retaking Jerusalem. He resumed sacrifices at the site of the Temple and made plans to rebuild the Temple. He established a provisional government and began to issue coins in its name. This is what the Jewish people were looking for in a mashiach; Jesus clearly does not fit into this mold. Ultimately, however, the Roman Empire crushed his revolt and killed Bar Kokhba. After his death, all acknowledged that he was not the mashiach.

[JehovahsWitness]

There is no "evidence" that Jesus suggested anything.

So on what do you base your following conclusion?

Obviously Jesus did not claim to be King of the Jews, but perhaps one of messiahs..

RESPONSE: ... regarding "perhaps one of the messiahs" only John's story

Would it be fair to say that you refer to "John's story" to support your conclusion that Jesus perhaps claimed to be "one of the messiahs"?

[polonius]

There is no "evidence" that Jesus suggested anything.

So on what do you base your following conclusion?

Obviously Jesus did not claim to be King of the Jews, but perhaps one of messiahs..

RESPONSE: ... regarding "perhaps one of the messiahs" only John's story

Would it be fair to say that you refer to "John's story" to support your conclusion that Jesus perhaps claimed to be "one of the messiahs"?

RESPONSE: Which John and which story?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_messiah_claimants
Main article: Jewish messianic claimants

In Judaism, "messiah" originally meant a divinely appointed king, such as David, Cyrus the Great[1] or Alexander the Great.[2] Later, especially after the failure of the Hasmonean Kingdom (37 BC) and the Jewish–Roman wars (AD 66–135), the figure of the Jewish messiah was one who would deliver the Jews from oppression and usher in an Olam Haba ("world to come") or Messianic Age. However the term "false messiah" was largely absent from rabbinic literature. The first mention is in the Sefer Zerubbabel, from the mid-seventh century, which uses the term, mashiah sheker, ("false messiah").[3]

• Jesus of Nazareth (c. 4 BC – 30/33 AD), leader of a Jewish sect who was crucified by the Romans for sedition and is believed to have been resurrected.[4] Jews who believed him to be the Messiah were originally called Nazarenes and later they were known as Jewish Christians (the first Christians).[5] Muslims,[6][7] Christians[8] and Messianic Jews[9] believe him to be the Messiah.

[JehovahsWitness]

RESPONSE: ... regarding "perhaps one of the messiahs" only John's story (written in 95 AD or more than 60 years after the fact) seems to make any such reference.

Would it be fair to say that you refer to "John's story" to support your conclusion that Jesus perhaps claimed to be "one of the messiahs"?

RESPONSE: Which John and which story?

Whichever "John" and whichever "story" YOU you were refering to in the first quote in post #1 above

Why did you refer to "John's story" when I asked you what you based your conclusion on?

[polonius]

RESPONSE: ... regarding "perhaps one of the messiahs" only John's story (written in 95 AD or more than 60 years after the fact) seems to make any such reference.

Would it be fair to say that you refer to "John's story" to support your conclusion that Jesus perhaps claimed to be "one of the messiahs"?

RESPONSE: Which John and which story?

Whichever "John" and whichever "story" YOU you were refering to in the first quote in post #1 above

Why did you refer to "John's story" when I asked you what you based your conclusion on?

RESPONSE: Because you asked:


Would it be fair to say that you refer to "John's story" to support your conclusion that Jesus perhaps claimed to be "one of the messiahs"?

[polonius]

http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/Debunk ... Page26.htm

THE CRITERIA TO BE FULFILLED BY THE JEWISH MESSIAH

Judaism understands the Messiah to be a human being (with no connotation of deity or divinity) who will bring about certain changes in the world and who must fulfill certain specific criteria before being acknowledged as the Messiah.

These specific criteria are as follows:

1) He must be Jewish. (Deuteronomy 17:15, Numbers 24:17)

2) He must be a member of the tribe of Judah (Genesis 49:10) and a direct male descendent of both King David (I Chronicles 17:11, Psalm 89:29-38, Jeremiah 33:17, II Samuel 7:12-16) and King Solomon. (I Chronicles 22:10, II Chronicles 7:18)

3) He must gather the Jewish people from exile and return them to Israel. (Isaiah 27:12-13, Isaiah 11:12)

4) He must rebuild the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem. (Micah 4:1)

5) He must bring world peace. (Isaiah 2:4, Isaiah 11:6, Micah 4:3)

If an individual fails to fulfill even one of these conditions, he cannot be the Messiah.�

Wouldn’t Jesus have realized that he did not fulfill these criteria and hence he was not the Messiah?

[JehovahsWitness]

Ok so would it be fair to say you based your conclusions about Jesus possible claims on "John's story"?

If "yes" , WHY? Why do you based your conclusions on something that cannot be considered "evidence"?

RESPONSE: ... regarding "perhaps one of the messiahs" only John's story ... seems to make any such reference.

[polonius]

JW posted:

Ok so would it be fair to say you based your conclusions about Jesus possible claims on "John's story"?

RESPONSE: No.

If "yes" , WHY? Why do you based your conclusions on something that cannot be considered "evidence"?

All writings may be evidence. The task is to separate fact from fiction.

For example, the messianic prophecies in the Old Testament show that Jesus was not the Jewish messiah. He simply didn't fulfill them.