Aristotle and Socrates disagreed on a very great deal.
One thing, they, indeed the Western and Eastern world agreed on was:
Evolution was a fact.
The only dissent was:
Was evolution biotic, or did some force (God/demiurge) create life and cause it to evolve.
2,600 years ago the ENTIRE civilized world agreed that evolution was a fact.
In another thread it was established that God fits no definition of biological life, he does not respirate, need to reproduce, eat, etc., so let's leave that line, or address it here:
Life from non-life
So the topic of debate is:
If the entire civilized world agreed that evolution was a thing, Hellenic, Middle-Eastern and even the far East, 2,600 years ago, how did we take such a great step backwards, that we are arguing something plain and obvious to primitive peoples?
PS - No, I will no cite a reference for Aristotles' and Socrates' disagreement, it is easy to look up and it will do you good to look it up, or demonstrate the fallacy.
Evolution, abiogenic, or God-caused
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DrNoGods
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Post #11
[Replying to post 9 by puddleglum]
The reason for believing that "everything has always gone on as it is today" is that multiple lines of evidence support that hypothesis. Scientific efforts towards understanding the age of the earth progressed from thousands of years, to millions (Lord Kelvin and his cooling planet) to eventually the accepted current value of 4.55 billion (give or take a tenth) from radiometric dating of earth samples, and meteorites (very many of them), combined with other evidence including the time periods required for erosion, continental drift, etc. Wikipedia sum it up with references:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_the_Earth
To counter this mountain of evidence accumulated over hundreds of years, theists have to try and discard radiometric dating as flawed when it specifically proves an old earth, along with any other scientific results that show, for example, that a global flood a measly 4,500 years ago positively did not happen. But they are happy to accept the same physics when it does not conflict with biblical history (eg. that humans could exploit the knowledge of the atom and radioactive decay physics to design and build an atomic bomb in 1945, which uses the same physics as radiometric dating but does not threaten bible history).
Evolution is a similar story ... it is supported by mountains of evidence and the genetic work over the last 40 years has just confirmed it positively as the basic method for how life has diversified on this planet. There is no need to "believe" that things have always been as they are ... the evidence leads to that conclusion.
They believe everything has always gone on as it is today and they deny that a worldwide flood occurred.
The reason for believing that "everything has always gone on as it is today" is that multiple lines of evidence support that hypothesis. Scientific efforts towards understanding the age of the earth progressed from thousands of years, to millions (Lord Kelvin and his cooling planet) to eventually the accepted current value of 4.55 billion (give or take a tenth) from radiometric dating of earth samples, and meteorites (very many of them), combined with other evidence including the time periods required for erosion, continental drift, etc. Wikipedia sum it up with references:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_the_Earth
To counter this mountain of evidence accumulated over hundreds of years, theists have to try and discard radiometric dating as flawed when it specifically proves an old earth, along with any other scientific results that show, for example, that a global flood a measly 4,500 years ago positively did not happen. But they are happy to accept the same physics when it does not conflict with biblical history (eg. that humans could exploit the knowledge of the atom and radioactive decay physics to design and build an atomic bomb in 1945, which uses the same physics as radiometric dating but does not threaten bible history).
Evolution is a similar story ... it is supported by mountains of evidence and the genetic work over the last 40 years has just confirmed it positively as the basic method for how life has diversified on this planet. There is no need to "believe" that things have always been as they are ... the evidence leads to that conclusion.
In human affairs the sources of success are ever to be found in the fountains of quick resolve and swift stroke; and it seems to be a law, inflexible and inexorable, that he who will not risk cannot win.
John Paul Jones, 1779
The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read.
Mark Twain
John Paul Jones, 1779
The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read.
Mark Twain
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DeMotts
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Post #12
[Replying to post 9 by puddleglum]
Hi puddleglum - can I ask you a few questions to determine where you stand? When a theist comes through here I think it's good to know their position before the arguments begin.
On a scale of 1-10 how would you rank the literality of the bible, with 1 being pure metaphor and 10 being the 100% accurate depiction of events. So 10 would say noah's ark happened, jonah lived inside a fish, etc.
How old do you think the Earth is? How old do you think the universe is?
Do you think that any level of evolution is possible? (i.e. viruses changing, spontaneous mutations and chromosomal aberrations)
And finally, did man co-exist with dinosaurs?
Thank you in advance.
Hi puddleglum - can I ask you a few questions to determine where you stand? When a theist comes through here I think it's good to know their position before the arguments begin.
On a scale of 1-10 how would you rank the literality of the bible, with 1 being pure metaphor and 10 being the 100% accurate depiction of events. So 10 would say noah's ark happened, jonah lived inside a fish, etc.
How old do you think the Earth is? How old do you think the universe is?
Do you think that any level of evolution is possible? (i.e. viruses changing, spontaneous mutations and chromosomal aberrations)
And finally, did man co-exist with dinosaurs?
Thank you in advance.
