Civil Debates on Christianity and Religions


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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 1: Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:14 pm
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Israel and Palestine - is there an amicable solution or...

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Israel and Palestine.

Is there an amicable solution or is that not really part of either agenda?


What are the agenda's?

Glimpsing the problem from afar, I see in the conflict how the poor deliver evil and how the rich deliver evil.

Basically the evil is the same - killing the opposition, and to be killed by the opposition is to be martyred - murdered, yes, but martyred for sure.

Both sides are accusing each other of the atrocity of wanting to see the other removed from the face of the planet, so in that, it is a racial conflict, and all culture at its root is no more or less than legitimizing racism.

So it is cultural, and many argue this stems from religion, so the root cause is seen in this light to be religion - a conflict of the gods using humans as their puppets, or humans claiming gods exist and the importance of being willing puppets obedient to them.

It is harder to see the agenda of Israel when her people are scattered throughout the world, and far easier to see her agenda now that she is a nation again.

One can look and list all the amazing things which Israel is presently occupied in creating for the direct benefit of herself, and overall, for the potential benefit of the rest of the world, but even that the list is long, her oppressive stance regarding the Palestinians removes much of the shine from that list of achievements like a magic trick which has been revealed, and so loses its lustre - its allure.

Two evils just don't amount to any good.

So what is it exactly that 'Gods Chosen People' are showing the world in relation to being chosen? Chosen for what exactly?

If one looks at the Holocaust one is able to piece together how a Jew thinks in relation to being part of a nation, even that at the time, there was no nation that a Jew could call their own.

How did the Jews respond to the situation? Did they pick up rocks and throw them at their oppressors? No, they did not.

Rather they saw at the time the hopelessness of their predicament and in that they accepted their fate. They called upon the world and eventually the world responded, but not before a large number of them had been exterminated.

In truth, the Jews bide their time. They know when the opportunity for vengeance presents itself, then and only then will they strike.

They had the legitimate role of being the victim and one part of the world responded to victims with empathy and guilt. The horrors were revealed and the world which cared, sought to rectify as well as possible the atrocities vented out upon the Jews, and part of that package involved the British handing over a large chunk of Palestine to the Jews.

The Jews, naturally enough, accepted the offer with rejoicing, even that in doing so they were securely surrounded by their enemies at every boarder. That was nothing new to the Jews, and something they had resolve and support in dealing with.

Not long after this official recognition of Israel being a sovereign state, the Six Day War happened as the locals and their allies decided that the Jew could not just come on in and push them out of the way and take over territory, no matter what worldly authority said otherwise.

As it turned out, the plan backfired on those who declared this war and Israel ended up with far more territory than it was first allotted and decided to keep that territory as the reward of victory.

This meant that Palestine was now a territory squashed into Population: 4.55 million (2014)
Area: 6,220 km²

A strip of land which has affectively become a prison for the Palestinians, with the Israeli's being the primary administrators - the boss - the Governor.

Never Again!

That is the catch phrase of the Israelite. It refers to the position of the Jew in relation to Germany and the Holocaust as it's focal point, but also to the 2000 year old diaspora and the idea that the world will never again be allowed the opportunity to force the Jews to suffer those things.

So then, often enough I have wondered why Israel would expect the 'dog in the cage' which is the Palestinian people to behave any differently when consistently poked with a sharp stick, to somehow react anything more than naturally bestial, and the answer appears to be in how the Jews themselves reacted in similar circumstances - and this is how the Jew thinks the Palestinian needs to react in order to show that they have learned how to rise above the bestial and therefore can be trusted.

Again, one has to see that in the eyes of the Jew, the Palestinians are the most guilty for their part in making the Holocaust a reality. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amin_al-Husseini

This is why today, Benjamin Netanyahu continues in the tradition of consistently reminding the world that Palestinians have, as a central part of their agenda, the declared anti-Semitic hate for all Jews/Israelis and the desire to eradicate them from the face of the planet.

This is also why Israel justifies her behaviour against Palestinians who have no yet shown contrition for the actions of their choices in their adversity to Israel.

From the worlds perspective this seems far too heavy handed and unacceptable because the world does not expect a dog in a cage consistently poked with a stick to react any different than with wild hateful rage.

The world thinks that one can really only pacify the dog by treating it fairly, kindly and eventually winning it over. The Jew thinks differently because the Jew knows differently, because the Jew has experienced the world differently.

There is no doubt that the cage and the sharp stick are tools of vengeance, but these are not that alone, They are also tools to protect Israel, who does not seem to understand that taking care of the dog in the cage might eventually make the dog ones friend, and then the dog can be released.

This is because the Jew has been betrayed by such sentiment, and well...Never Again.

So the predicament in this is that while Israel can keep her enemies at bay through use of force and protection with the help of her allies, if any of her enemies should be given or develop nuclear weapons, those enemies are demented enough through their hatred, to use them in their agenda to eradicate Jews from the face of the planet.

This is why Israel's policy on that matter is The Samson Option
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samson_Option
which is the Last Resort whereby if Israel is destroyed, so too are her enemies.

When one looks at the story of Samson, one sees that Samson made some bad choices, lost his sight as a result and decided that since he was going to be executed, so too he would use the last of his strength to bring death down on the heads of those who wanted him dead.
All in all, bad choices all around. Pointless waste of resources and everything else.

One can forgive without forgetting. Indeed, that is the wisest use of forgiveness.

Israel simply is not blameless in the game, and by association, neither is her God.

As a Last Resort, the Samson Option renders Israel's agenda null, so it is simply not a great option in that regard, but what exactly IS Israel's agenda in relation to - not only declaring herself to being a Chosen People of God - but in relation to the rest of the world as well.

One does not have to go far to find compelling arguments that the agenda is pro-Jew and not so pro anyone not Jew. But largely these are conspiracy theories which cannot be confirmed or denied, certainly not denied when the actions of Israel in relation to Palestine are examine by the world. Israel does herself no favours there, but does she even care?

Why can't she forgive? Why can't she get over the past and work towards a brighter future? Why can't she help the Palestinians help themselves - help the Palestinians learn to love her by replacing the cage and the sharp stick with something more appropriate?

Israel must of course understand completely that the likelihood of Palestine somehow learning how to rise above the atrocious actions of Israel is next to null.
Israel is in a far, far better position to be the bigger person in this conflict, stop with trying to convince the world that their past, present and ongoing methods against Palestine are the only way to proceed, and admit these are not affective and causing more harm than good.


All very well and good declaring such a thing I know, but asking Israel to drop one method means coming up with another method to take its place. One cannot do that effectively without knowing all the necessary things involved which may be hidden from the awareness of the general public.

The general public (the world) may be in the dark about such things - should such things actually exist - but the world is not inclined to simply hold faith in Israel and her God. Things hidden have to be revealed.

The world understands intuitively that things are not quite right, but putting one's finger on exactly what that is, is pretty much impossible with all the secrets withheld from the general public. Second guessing isn't a great option and is where most conspiracies derive from.

The bottom line appears to be that we - as human beings - really need to rise above the influences of our ancestors and the cultures we inherited from them and unite as One Family. Not 'Jew' or 'non Jew'. Not 'American' and 'non American' Rise, rather, to the challenge of transforming from a type zero species to a type one species.

https://futurism.com/the-kardashev-scale-type-i-ii-iii-iv-v-civilization/

Otherwise, whether it be rocks thrown, or bullets fired, the underlying mentality is exactly the same, regardless.

Two wrongs never make a right.

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