What is "The Good News?"

[EBA]

Tell me, what is "The Good News?"

Peace be to all.

[shnarkle]

The good news is we believers can now experience its present benefits, having been welcomed into it as His sons and daughters.

Yes, I would agree. Since the Messianic Kingdom has been installed and we are subjects of the kingdom we enjoy many spiritual benefits at this time, among other things a worlwide brotherhood, that worship in unity and an abundance of spiritual food.

As I understand your position, what you describe and affirm did not apply before 1914.

Or have I gained the wrong impression?

That would depend on what impression you have. If its that there was no spiritual benefits than yes you have the wrong impression, there have always been spiritual benefits and spiritual food and since Jesus first anointed his brothers there have been son's and daughters of the kingdom. Of course there was no faithful and discreet slave and those son's and daughters of the kingdom were under the Kingdom of the son of God's love and not the Messianic kingdom (since that hadn't been set up yet). And the wheat, prior to this harvest season hadn't yet been gathered into God’s modern day organization.

If that's what you understood from what I said then that is correct.

You have clearly spelled out the JW position as accepting the presence of "the kingdom" 2000 years ago.

There is only one kingdom of God, past, present, and future.

JW terms and constructs are not helpful and not scripture.

These include "Messianic kingdom", "faithful and discreet slave", and "modern day organization".

I think you're onto something there Checkpoint. I've noticed that when someone starts telling me some elaborate story, as interesting as it may be; in most cases it's just entertainment. When the biblical story dives deep into a person, and begins to resonate within them; when it changes who they are, then one begins to see Gods' will manifesting in the world around them. When one gets an interpretation that seems to be telling a mediocre story with paper thin characters, it just falls flat. When an explanation doesn't have any explanatory power, there's a problem.

[onewithhim]

The good news is we believers can now experience its present benefits, having been welcomed into it as His sons and daughters.

Yes, I would agree. Since the Messianic Kingdom has been installed and we are subjects of the kingdom we enjoy many spiritual benefits at this time, among other things a worlwide brotherhood, that worship in unity and an abundance of spiritual food.

As I understand your position, what you describe and affirm did not apply before 1914.

Or have I gained the wrong impression?

That would depend on what impression you have. If its that there was no spiritual benefits than yes you have the wrong impression, there have always been spiritual benefits and spiritual food and since Jesus first anointed his brothers there have been son's and daughters of the kingdom. Of course there was no faithful and discreet slave and those son's and daughters of the kingdom were under the Kingdom of the son of God's love and not the Messianic kingdom (since that hadn't been set up yet). And the wheat, prior to this harvest season hadn't yet been gathered into God’s modern day organization.

If that's what you understood from what I said then that is correct.

You have clearly spelled out the JW position as accepting the presence of "the kingdom" 2000 years ago.

There is only one kingdom of God, past, present, and future.

JW terms and constructs are not helpful and not scripture.

These include "Messianic kingdom", "faithful and discreet slave", and "modern day organization".

No reply to my post #217?

Anyway, "JW terms" are indeed scriptural. "Messianic Kingdom" refers to the Government that will rule the world, as differentiated from "the Kingdom of the Son of God's love," which was something between Jesus and his Father, and involved Jesus' relationship with his co-rulers. You prefer to lump the two together, and that is your prerogative.

"Faithful and discreet slave" is right from Matthew 24:45. The KJV renders this term as the "faithful and wise servant." Both renderings refer to the same thing.

What could be objectionable about mentioning God's "modern day organization"? Wouldn't God have one? His oldest organization was the nation of Israel, and then when they declined to accept Jesus as the Messiah the Christian congregation became God's organization on Earth. The "modern day organization" is simply that Christian congregation, implemented by Jesus in the first century, in present-day circumstances. We aren't in first century Judea any longer, but we are in modern times and the congregation is world-wide.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 213 by onewithhim]

This is the Good News in a nutshell. Jesus and his disciples are merely searching for people who recognize this and want to be citizens of God's Kingdom.

"merely searching"?

Not "merely" anything, and not searching without finding.

Finding people who gain citizenry in heaven, having exited Satan's kingdom and been brought into God's kingdom by becoming sons of the kingdom.

Here, then, is Paul with the Good News in a nutshell.

Colossians 1:

10 so that you may live a life worthy of the Lord and please him in every way: bearing fruit in every good work, growing in the knowledge of God,
11 being strengthened with all power according to His glorious might so that you may have great endurance and patience,

12 and giving joyful thanks to the Father, who has qualified us to share in the inheritance of his holy people in the kingdom of light.
13 For He has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son He loves,

14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

I see that Jehovah'sWitness has given a good explanation of the difference between the Kingdom of the Son of His love and the Messianic Kingdom that will rule the world as an all-encompassing government.

We are searching for people who desire to hear about and to learn about God's own government that will rule the world. This is why Jesus gave his disciples the commission to go throughout the world and preach this amazing message (Matthew 24:14; Matthew 28:19,20). We have to find them before they can receive enlightenment.

So, what do you say "the Kingdom of the Son of His love" was then?

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 213 by onewithhim]

This is the Good News in a nutshell. Jesus and his disciples are merely searching for people who recognize this and want to be citizens of God's Kingdom.

"merely searching"?

Not "merely" anything, and not searching without finding.

Finding people who gain citizenry in heaven, having exited Satan's kingdom and been brought into God's kingdom by becoming sons of the kingdom.

Here, then, is Paul with the Good News in a nutshell.

Colossians 1:

10 so that you may live a life worthy of the Lord and please him in every way: bearing fruit in every good work, growing in the knowledge of God,
11 being strengthened with all power according to His glorious might so that you may have great endurance and patience,

12 and giving joyful thanks to the Father, who has qualified us to share in the inheritance of his holy people in the kingdom of light.
13 For He has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son He loves,

14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

I see that Jehovah'sWitness has given a good explanation of the difference between the Kingdom of the Son of His love and the Messianic Kingdom that will rule the world as an all-encompassing government.

We are searching for people who desire to hear about and to learn about God's own government that will rule the world. This is why Jesus gave his disciples the commission to go throughout the world and preach this amazing message (Matthew 24:14; Matthew 28:19,20). We have to find them before they can receive enlightenment.

So, what do you say "the Kingdom of the Son of His love" was then?

Here it is, straight from the horses' mouths (as written in Insight on the Scriptures, Vol.2):

"Ten days after Jesus' ascension to heaven, on Pentecost of 33 A.D., his disciples had evidence that he had been 'exalted to the right hand of God' when Jesus poured out holy spirit upon them. (Acts 1:8,9: 2:1-4,29-33) The 'new covenant' then became operative toward them, and they became the nucleus of a new 'holy nation,' spiritual Israel. (See Hebrews 12:22-24; IPeter 2:9,10; Gal.6:16.)

"Christ was now sitting at his Father's right hand and was the Head over this new congregation (Eph.5:23; Heb.1:3; Philippians 2:9,11). The Scriptures show that from Pentecost 33 A.D. onward, a spiritual kingdom was set up over his disciples. When writing to first-century Christians at Colossae, Paul referred to Jesus Christ as already having a kingdom: '[God] delivered us from the authority of the darkness and transferred us into the kingdom of the Son of his love.' (Col.1:13; see also Acts 17:6,7)

"Christ's kingdom from Pentecost onward has been a spiritual one ruling over spiritual Israel, Christians who have been begotten by God's spirit to become the spiritual children of God (John 3:3,5,6). When such spirit-begotten Christians receive their heavenly reward, they will no longer be earthly subjects of the spiritual kingdom of Christ, but they will be kings with Christ in heaven."


"The Kingdom of Our Lord and of His Christ" is something different.
Now we are getting into the "Messianic Kingdom" territory, when Jehovah, by means of His Son, will make "a new expression of divine rulership." This Kingdom is of greater proportions and bigger dimensions than "the kingdom of the Son of his love." To summarize, "the kingdom of the Son of his love" began at Pentecost and has been over Christ's anointed disciples; "the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ" is brought forth at the end of the "appointed times of the nations" (Luke 21:24) and is over all mankind on earth.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 213 by onewithhim]

This is the Good News in a nutshell. Jesus and his disciples are merely searching for people who recognize this and want to be citizens of God's Kingdom.

"merely searching"?

Not "merely" anything, and not searching without finding.

Finding people who gain citizenry in heaven, having exited Satan's kingdom and been brought into God's kingdom by becoming sons of the kingdom.

Here, then, is Paul with the Good News in a nutshell.

Colossians 1:

10 so that you may live a life worthy of the Lord and please him in every way: bearing fruit in every good work, growing in the knowledge of God,
11 being strengthened with all power according to His glorious might so that you may have great endurance and patience,

12 and giving joyful thanks to the Father, who has qualified us to share in the inheritance of his holy people in the kingdom of light.
13 For He has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son He loves,

14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

I see that Jehovah'sWitness has given a good explanation of the difference between the Kingdom of the Son of His love and the Messianic Kingdom that will rule the world as an all-encompassing government.

We are searching for people who desire to hear about and to learn about God's own government that will rule the world. This is why Jesus gave his disciples the commission to go throughout the world and preach this amazing message (Matthew 24:14; Matthew 28:19,20). We have to find them before they can receive enlightenment.

So, what do you say "the Kingdom of the Son of His love" was then?

Here it is, straight from the horses' mouths (as written in Insight on the Scriptures, Vol.2):

"Ten days after Jesus' ascension to heaven, on Pentecost of 33 A.D., his disciples had evidence that he had been 'exalted to the right hand of God' when Jesus poured out holy spirit upon them. (Acts 1:8,9: 2:1-4,29-33) The 'new covenant' then became operative toward them, and they became the nucleus of a new 'holy nation,' spiritual Israel. (See Hebrews 12:22-24; IPeter 2:9,10; Gal.6:16.)

"Christ was now sitting at his Father's right hand and was the Head over this new congregation (Eph.5:23; Heb.1:3; Philippians 2:9,11). The Scriptures show that from Pentecost 33 A.D. onward, a spiritual kingdom was set up over his disciples. When writing to first-century Christians at Colossae, Paul referred to Jesus Christ as already having a kingdom: '[God] delivered us from the authority of the darkness and transferred us into the kingdom of the Son of his love.' (Col.1:13; see also Acts 17:6,7)

"Christ's kingdom from Pentecost onward has been a spiritual one ruling over spiritual Israel, Christians who have been begotten by God's spirit to become the spiritual children of God (John 3:3,5,6). When such spirit-begotten Christians receive their heavenly reward, they will no longer be earthly subjects of the spiritual kingdom of Christ, but they will be kings with Christ in heaven."


"The Kingdom of Our Lord and of His Christ" is something different.
Now we are getting into the "Messianic Kingdom" territory, when Jehovah, by means of His Son, will make "a new expression of divine rulership." This Kingdom is of greater proportions and bigger dimensions than "the kingdom of the Son of his love." To summarize, "the kingdom of the Son of his love" began at Pentecost and has been over Christ's anointed disciples; "the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ" is brought forth at the end of the "appointed times of the nations" (Luke 21:24) and is over all mankind on earth.

Thank you for that. Interesting.

Is that not the situation today too?

[Checkpoint]

The good news is we believers can now experience its present benefits, having been welcomed into it as His sons and daughters.

Yes, I would agree. Since the Messianic Kingdom has been installed and we are subjects of the kingdom we enjoy many spiritual benefits at this time, among other things a worlwide brotherhood, that worship in unity and an abundance of spiritual food.

As I understand your position, what you describe and affirm did not apply before 1914.

Or have I gained the wrong impression?

That would depend on what impression you have. If its that there was no spiritual benefits than yes you have the wrong impression, there have always been spiritual benefits and spiritual food and since Jesus first anointed his brothers there have been son's and daughters of the kingdom. Of course there was no faithful and discreet slave and those son's and daughters of the kingdom were under the Kingdom of the son of God's love and not the Messianic kingdom (since that hadn't been set up yet). And the wheat, prior to this harvest season hadn't yet been gathered into God’s modern day organization.

If that's what you understood from what I said then that is correct.

You have clearly spelled out the JW position as accepting the presence of "the kingdom" 2000 years ago.

There is only one kingdom of God, past, present, and future.

JW terms and constructs are not helpful and not scripture.

These include "Messianic kingdom", "faithful and discreet slave", and "modern day organization".

No reply to my post #217?

Anyway, "JW terms" are indeed scriptural. "Messianic Kingdom" refers to the Government that will rule the world, as differentiated from "the Kingdom of the Son of God's love," which was something between Jesus and his Father, and involved Jesus' relationship with his co-rulers. You prefer to lump the two together, and that is your prerogative.

"Faithful and discreet slave" is right from Matthew 24:45. The KJV renders this term as the "faithful and wise servant." Both renderings refer to the same thing.

What could be objectionable about mentioning God's "modern day organization"? Wouldn't God have one? His oldest organization was the nation of Israel, and then when they declined to accept Jesus as the Messiah the Christian congregation became God's organization on Earth. The "modern day organization" is simply that Christian congregation, implemented by Jesus in the first century, in present-day circumstances. We aren't in first century Judea any longer, but we are in modern times and the congregation is world-wide.

I stand corrected; "faithful and discreet slave" is indeed a scripture phrase.

However, it is one that applies to any and every true believer regardless of matters of their church loyalty or doctrine.

Israel was a nation, and a kind of theocracy, not an organization.

God has no "modern day organization", but instead has a church he said he would build, one that no man can number, which is an organism of living stones comprising the people of God.

1 Peter 2:

4 As you come to him, the living Stone—rejected by humans but chosen by God and precious to Him—
5 you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His wonderful light.
10 Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 213 by onewithhim]

This is the Good News in a nutshell. Jesus and his disciples are merely searching for people who recognize this and want to be citizens of God's Kingdom.

"merely searching"?

Not "merely" anything, and not searching without finding.

Finding people who gain citizenry in heaven, having exited Satan's kingdom and been brought into God's kingdom by becoming sons of the kingdom.

Here, then, is Paul with the Good News in a nutshell.

Colossians 1:

10 so that you may live a life worthy of the Lord and please him in every way: bearing fruit in every good work, growing in the knowledge of God,
11 being strengthened with all power according to His glorious might so that you may have great endurance and patience,

12 and giving joyful thanks to the Father, who has qualified us to share in the inheritance of his holy people in the kingdom of light.
13 For He has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son He loves,

14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

I see that Jehovah'sWitness has given a good explanation of the difference between the Kingdom of the Son of His love and the Messianic Kingdom that will rule the world as an all-encompassing government.

We are searching for people who desire to hear about and to learn about God's own government that will rule the world. This is why Jesus gave his disciples the commission to go throughout the world and preach this amazing message (Matthew 24:14; Matthew 28:19,20). We have to find them before they can receive enlightenment.

So, what do you say "the Kingdom of the Son of His love" was then?

Here it is, straight from the horses' mouths (as written in Insight on the Scriptures, Vol.2):

"Ten days after Jesus' ascension to heaven, on Pentecost of 33 A.D., his disciples had evidence that he had been 'exalted to the right hand of God' when Jesus poured out holy spirit upon them. (Acts 1:8,9: 2:1-4,29-33) The 'new covenant' then became operative toward them, and they became the nucleus of a new 'holy nation,' spiritual Israel. (See Hebrews 12:22-24; IPeter 2:9,10; Gal.6:16.)

"Christ was now sitting at his Father's right hand and was the Head over this new congregation (Eph.5:23; Heb.1:3; Philippians 2:9,11). The Scriptures show that from Pentecost 33 A.D. onward, a spiritual kingdom was set up over his disciples. When writing to first-century Christians at Colossae, Paul referred to Jesus Christ as already having a kingdom: '[God] delivered us from the authority of the darkness and transferred us into the kingdom of the Son of his love.' (Col.1:13; see also Acts 17:6,7)

"Christ's kingdom from Pentecost onward has been a spiritual one ruling over spiritual Israel, Christians who have been begotten by God's spirit to become the spiritual children of God (John 3:3,5,6). When such spirit-begotten Christians receive their heavenly reward, they will no longer be earthly subjects of the spiritual kingdom of Christ, but they will be kings with Christ in heaven."


"The Kingdom of Our Lord and of His Christ" is something different.
Now we are getting into the "Messianic Kingdom" territory, when Jehovah, by means of His Son, will make "a new expression of divine rulership." This Kingdom is of greater proportions and bigger dimensions than "the kingdom of the Son of his love." To summarize, "the kingdom of the Son of his love" began at Pentecost and has been over Christ's anointed disciples; "the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ" is brought forth at the end of the "appointed times of the nations" (Luke 21:24) and is over all mankind on earth.

Thank you for that. Interesting.

Is that not the situation today too?

Yes, the Kingdom of the Son of His love" is operative with Jesus and his co-rulers. The Messianic Kingdom has yet to wrest the world's rulership from Satan and his puppets on Earth, but we expect this to happen very shortly.

[onewithhim]

The good news is we believers can now experience its present benefits, having been welcomed into it as His sons and daughters.

Yes, I would agree. Since the Messianic Kingdom has been installed and we are subjects of the kingdom we enjoy many spiritual benefits at this time, among other things a worlwide brotherhood, that worship in unity and an abundance of spiritual food.

As I understand your position, what you describe and affirm did not apply before 1914.

Or have I gained the wrong impression?

That would depend on what impression you have. If its that there was no spiritual benefits than yes you have the wrong impression, there have always been spiritual benefits and spiritual food and since Jesus first anointed his brothers there have been son's and daughters of the kingdom. Of course there was no faithful and discreet slave and those son's and daughters of the kingdom were under the Kingdom of the son of God's love and not the Messianic kingdom (since that hadn't been set up yet). And the wheat, prior to this harvest season hadn't yet been gathered into God’s modern day organization.

If that's what you understood from what I said then that is correct.

You have clearly spelled out the JW position as accepting the presence of "the kingdom" 2000 years ago.

There is only one kingdom of God, past, present, and future.

JW terms and constructs are not helpful and not scripture.

These include "Messianic kingdom", "faithful and discreet slave", and "modern day organization".

No reply to my post #217?

Anyway, "JW terms" are indeed scriptural. "Messianic Kingdom" refers to the Government that will rule the world, as differentiated from "the Kingdom of the Son of God's love," which was something between Jesus and his Father, and involved Jesus' relationship with his co-rulers. You prefer to lump the two together, and that is your prerogative.

"Faithful and discreet slave" is right from Matthew 24:45. The KJV renders this term as the "faithful and wise servant." Both renderings refer to the same thing.

What could be objectionable about mentioning God's "modern day organization"? Wouldn't God have one? His oldest organization was the nation of Israel, and then when they declined to accept Jesus as the Messiah the Christian congregation became God's organization on Earth. The "modern day organization" is simply that Christian congregation, implemented by Jesus in the first century, in present-day circumstances. We aren't in first century Judea any longer, but we are in modern times and the congregation is world-wide.

I stand corrected; "faithful and discreet slave" is indeed a scripture phrase.

However, it is one that applies to any and every true believer regardless of matters of their church loyalty or doctrine.

Israel was a nation, and a kind of theocracy, not an organization.

God has no "modern day organization", but instead has a church he said he would build, one that no man can number, which is an organism of living stones comprising the people of God.

1 Peter 2:

4 As you come to him, the living Stone—rejected by humans but chosen by God and precious to Him—
5 you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His wonderful light.
10 Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.

You say "the faithful and discreet slave" applies to every believer. How does every believing individual provide "the Lord's domestics" with spiritual food, and at the absolute right time? (The "domestics" are all of Jehovah's people.) How could they do that?

Israel was/is a nation, and Jehovah's Witnesses also consider themselves as a nation.("The little one will become a thousand, and the small one a mighty nation. I myself, Jehovah, shall speed it up in its own time." Isaiah 60:22) Both Israel and the Christian congregation can be called "organizations." They both had/have been organized according to Jehovah's instructions.

You are right about God's organization of "living stones"---people for Jehovah. So what is that church that is made up of the living stones? The Scripture in 1Peter that you quote describes exactly what the Christian congregation means today, God's people of ancient Israel having been replaced by the Christian church. Now, which church comprises God's special people, His "chosen race," His "holy nation"?

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 213 by onewithhim]

This is the Good News in a nutshell. Jesus and his disciples are merely searching for people who recognize this and want to be citizens of God's Kingdom.

"merely searching"?

Not "merely" anything, and not searching without finding.

Finding people who gain citizenry in heaven, having exited Satan's kingdom and been brought into God's kingdom by becoming sons of the kingdom.

Here, then, is Paul with the Good News in a nutshell.

Colossians 1:

10 so that you may live a life worthy of the Lord and please him in every way: bearing fruit in every good work, growing in the knowledge of God,
11 being strengthened with all power according to His glorious might so that you may have great endurance and patience,

12 and giving joyful thanks to the Father, who has qualified us to share in the inheritance of his holy people in the kingdom of light.
13 For He has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son He loves,

14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

I see that Jehovah'sWitness has given a good explanation of the difference between the Kingdom of the Son of His love and the Messianic Kingdom that will rule the world as an all-encompassing government.

We are searching for people who desire to hear about and to learn about God's own government that will rule the world. This is why Jesus gave his disciples the commission to go throughout the world and preach this amazing message (Matthew 24:14; Matthew 28:19,20). We have to find them before they can receive enlightenment.

You say "the Messianic kingdom that will rule", which indicates it is not yet ruling.

So, what kingdom do we have now?

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 228 by Checkpoint]

It is ruling, but only over Jesus' own Church as of yet, preparing them for the end of this age, which will occur after the preaching work has been done to Jehovah's satisfaction. (Matt.24:14) Jesus' people are doing this preaching about the Kingdom, to bring hope to all the nations. Then the full manifestation of the Kingdom will occur. I think I explained this before. (Daniel 2:44)