Paradise on Earth

[onewithhim]

When I learned that the Bible speaks of a restored Garden of Eden and the restoration of mankind to the perfection and endless life that Adam forfeited, I was thrilled. Who doesn't want to keep living on this beautiful earth, with our loved ones, and being able to do all the things we love to do---endlessly?

If God said to you today, "When do you want to die?" would you say "now!!"? I don't think very many people would say that.

We CAN live forever here on Earth. The Bible tells us that we can.

Matthew 5:5
Psalm 37:9-11,29

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 966 by onewithhim]

onewithhim: "I dare say that God's 'armaments' that He will use to remove all the evil inhabitants of this planet will out-strip anything that puny men can dream up. I wouldn't want to be on the side of men that are taking their positions against God and His Son, when Armageddon comes."

I reckon he'll be dashing babes against the rocks and raping virgins just like in the good ol' days. You can eat the chocolate ice cream if you wish. I can't get past the smell. I'll go down swinging if it comes to that. But I think your "god" is just empty threats to fill up the collection plates.

What nasty-stick hit you? Wow! I will vehemently say that God wouldn't even think of "dashing babies against rocks" or "raping virgins." Those things were done in spite of Jehovah's instructions to his people. He told the Israelites what to do, and when they didn't listen to him they got ravished by the surrounding nations. That's when babies were killed and virgins raped. God didn't do it. The pagan nations did it to Israel (because they refused to listen to God and Jehovah left them to their own devices, so to speak).

(BTW, JWs don't pass collection plates.)

[onewithhim]

I didn't want to argue anymore about what the Bible says about the earth being a paradise, which God purposed from the beginning, so I started a thread for only people that liked the idea of living forever in paradise conditions. I am very surprised that no one has posted anything. 45 people, as of today, looked at the OP and then got out of Dodge. Do people really not like the idea of living in paradise? I wonder why this is so. Any further comment?

Well you might want to make it clear that you are not wanting to discuss or argue the idea from a biblical perspective. The OP of the thread gives the reader the impression that you do want biblical perspective.

Of course I want to discuss the Biblical perspective. But I don't want to argue about non-Biblical ideas, such as the earth being destroyed by God. If someone wants to know more about His purpose for the earth, I would love to discuss it.

Except that God reiterates over and over, He's coming back with fire and a sword. Christ said there will be much weeping and knashing of teeth. And his last recorded order was to buy swords.

There will be gnashing of teeth and fire and sword for the wicked. They have to be removed before good people who want to live by God's kind and beneficial principles can have true peace and security. Why do you feel that God is not going to help us get back our wonderful Paradise because he says that he will eradicate the wicked?

Yes, but having done all you can to prepare to stand, now stand. The righteous won't be without injury. Its a war after all.

The whole reason for this war is to rid the earth of evil people so that life can go on in peace and security. The righteous will not be hurt in this war. They will be protected. Why would God allow his people to be injured when he is causing a war to annihilate the wicked so that they, his righteous people, will be able to live without anything that will harm them?

"It is righteous on God's part to repay tribulation to those who make tribulation for you, but, to you who suffer tribulation, relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance upon those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus. These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength, at the time he comes to be glorified in connection with his holy ones and to be regarded in that day with wonder in connection with all those who exercised faith, because the witness we gave met with faith among you." (2Thess.1:6-10)

[TSGracchus]

[Replying to post 970 by onewithhim]

onewithhim: "What nasty-stick hit you?"

I read it in a nasty book, which, it seems, that you have not read.

onewithhim: "I will vehemently say that God wouldn't even think of "dashing babies against rocks..."

"Blessed shall he be who takes your little ones and dashes them against the rock!" -- Psalm 137:9 ESV

onewithhim: "... or "raping virgins." Those things were done in spite of Jehovah's instructions to his people.'

"Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man by lying with him.but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man. But all the young girls who have not known man by lying with him keep alive for yourselves." -- Numbers 31:17-18 ESV

onewithhim: "He told the Israelites what to do, and when they didn't listen to him they got ravished by the surrounding nations. That's when babies were killed and virgins raped. God didn't do it."

God commanded it. God praised it. It's there in black and white, or sometimes, in red letters.

onewithhim: "(BTW, JWs don't pass collection plates.)"

I think you are quibbling. Or Does the Kingdom Hall pay the rent by collecting manna dropped from heaven?

[JehovahsWitness]

onewithhim: "(BTW, JWs don't pass collection plates.)"

I think you are quibbling. Or Does the Kingdom Hall pay the rent by collecting manna dropped from heaven?

OWH made an accurate statement of fact that applies to all Jehovah's witness services. Passing around a collection plate implies one or more of the following...

• #1 Public contributions made in full view of other members of the congregation
  
  #2 Parts of religious services dedicated to the collection of money.
  
  #3 Any members of the public that are also in attending our meeting being asked to hand over cash or make a cheque during a service.

We have decided that any contributions members make should be done privately on an entirely voluntary basis which is why Kingdom halls have boxes marked for that purpose. We believe this method is not only more discreet and facilitates anonymous giving, but it means that members don't feel pressured to give if they don't wants to.




RELATED POSTS

Do Jehovah's witnesses charge for their religious services?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 49#p910849

Are Jehovah's Witness ministers paid for the preaching they do ?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 80#p912080

FURTHER READING How Is the Work of Jehovah's Witnesses Financed?
https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesse ... -financed/

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 970 by onewithhim]

onewithhim: "What nasty-stick hit you?"

I read it in a nasty book, which, it seems, that you have not read.

onewithhim: "I will vehemently say that God wouldn't even think of "dashing babies against rocks..."

"Blessed shall he be who takes your little ones and dashes them against the rock!" -- Psalm 137:9 ESV

onewithhim: "... or "raping virgins." Those things were done in spite of Jehovah's instructions to his people.'

"Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man by lying with him.but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man. But all the young girls who have not known man by lying with him keep alive for yourselves." -- Numbers 31:17-18 ESV

onewithhim: "He told the Israelites what to do, and when they didn't listen to him they got ravished by the surrounding nations. That's when babies were killed and virgins raped. God didn't do it."

God commanded it. God praised it. It's there in black and white, or sometimes, in red letters.

onewithhim: "(BTW, JWs don't pass collection plates.)"

I think you are quibbling. Or Does the Kingdom Hall pay the rent by collecting manna dropped from heaven?

I have read the Bible from cover to cover more than once. I read the up-building parts every day.

Psalm 137:9 speaks of the recompense toward Babylon for the evil things this world power did to Israel. Unfortunately this involved the death of babies. What horror mankind experiences because humans turned their backs on God even in the Garden of Eden.

Numbers 31:17 is a troubling passage, and I want to do a little more research on it. Right off the bat I want to say that Moses commanded this; it doesn't say that Jehovah told him to order such a thing. I don't think of God that way. He wouldn't order the death of innocents. You see, I don't think that the Bible is inerrant. If men are involved (that is, humans), something will not be perfect, no matter what it is. I believe that men's thoughts and passions are evident in many passages, and that is to be expected when they are assigned to do something. Jehovah feels pity even when a bird falls to the ground (Matthew 10:29), so how could he order the slaughter of babies? I don't believe it. I don't see anywhere where God praised such a thing.

I am not quibbling about passing the plate. We do not ask for contributions from people who come into the Kingdom Hall. A plate or basket is never passed. Donations from members of the congregation and others are anonymous, unless someone wants their name known, and there are slots in boxes in the back of the Hall for anyone who wants to donate anything. Usually they have to ask where they are. I think we are the only religion that doesn't pass a plate.

Our elders all hold down jobs and support themselves. This is after the example of Paul who earned his way by making tents. We don't ask a tithe, knowing that tithing was not something that Christians were required to do. People give what they want to. Yet we always have enough to pay the light bill, building up-keep, etc.

[brianbbs67]

[Replying to post 970 by onewithhim]

onewithhim: "What nasty-stick hit you?"

I read it in a nasty book, which, it seems, that you have not read.

onewithhim: "I will vehemently say that God wouldn't even think of "dashing babies against rocks..."

"Blessed shall he be who takes your little ones and dashes them against the rock!" -- Psalm 137:9 ESV

onewithhim: "... or "raping virgins." Those things were done in spite of Jehovah's instructions to his people.'

"Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man by lying with him.but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man. But all the young girls who have not known man by lying with him keep alive for yourselves." -- Numbers 31:17-18 ESV

onewithhim: "He told the Israelites what to do, and when they didn't listen to him they got ravished by the surrounding nations. That's when babies were killed and virgins raped. God didn't do it."

God commanded it. God praised it. It's there in black and white, or sometimes, in red letters.

onewithhim: "(BTW, JWs don't pass collection plates.)"

I think you are quibbling. Or Does the Kingdom Hall pay the rent by collecting manna dropped from heaven?

Psalm 137:9 Is David responding to what has happened to Isreal from Babylon. Not God ordering it. Although, He could decree this, He hasn't.

Numbers 31:17-18 Is Moses" anger and order , not Gods. But, again, God does what He wants.

BUt, God could do it to punish or irradicate the offensive. He kinda says He will.

So, your basic disagreement is, that you, being evil(as all are), should not be punished for non repentance?

Or another question could be, should there be no consequences for anything we do?

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 975 by brianbbs67]

We are all imperfect, paradise ( life on this our present planet earth cleaned up from pollution) will be a beautiful gift, not earned.


At least that is what we believe, I refer you to page 19 of this thread
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 092#830092

JEHOVAH'S WITNESS



RELATED POSTS


What is PARADISE in Jehovah's Witness terminology?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 832#855832

What can we expect to see in paradise?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 407#855407

[Tcg]

When I learned that the Bible speaks of a restored Garden of Eden and the restoration of mankind to the perfection and endless life that Adam forfeited, I was thrilled. Who doesn't want to keep living on this beautiful earth, with our loved ones, and being able to do all the things we love to do---endlessly?

You are of course mistaking reality with desire. We may wish for all kinds of things. Our wishes don't change reality.

If they did, think how many would never grow up and still be Toys-R-Us kids.

[Tcg]

I think we are the only religion that doesn't pass a plate.

If by religion you mean JWs, you are totally mistaken. I can't count the number of protestant churches I've been to that have boxes in the back for donations.

Beyond that, the Quaker Meetings I've attended don't even have boxes. In fact, you have to ask a member in order to even find out how one can donate.

In spite of your claims and the claims of other JWs, your religion isn't as unique as you would want fellow members and outsiders to believe.

There are many witnesses for Jehovah. JWs are simply one small group within that huge mass of Christianity.

[RightReason]

[Replying to post 974 by onewithhim]

I am not quibbling about passing the plate. We do not ask for contributions from people who come into the Kingdom Hall. A plate or basket is never passed. Donations from members of the congregation and others are anonymous, unless someone wants their name known, and there are slots in boxes in the back of the Hall for anyone who wants to donate anything. Usually they have to ask where they are. I think we are the only religion that doesn't pass a plate.

Our elders all hold down jobs and support themselves. This is after the example of Paul who earned his way by making tents. We don't ask a tithe, knowing that tithing was not something that Christians were required to do. People give what they want to. Yet we always have enough to pay the light bill, building up-keep, etc

I am Catholic and many often like to make the Church the butt of the joke by suggesting she is only interested in money. LOL! When a basket is passed for donations, it is NEVER a requirement. Also, being a priest is a full time job. I know priests who celebrate multiple masses daily, 5 masses on Sundays, visit the sick, visit the imprisoned, do weddings, funerals, confessions, as well as numerous talks/counseling/and practical meetings throughout the week. I'm not exactly sure how they could adequately shepherd the flock if they had to be an engineer, mechanic, accountant, etc. in order to pay for food and shelter. They are actually doing exactly what Jesus suggested -- leave your family and businesses and follow me. Eat what is given you. Sleep where you are offered, etc. THAT is exactly what they do. Praise be to God.

Many denominations like to suggest they are better or "more pure" for whatever reason -- fill in the blank. Many practices are beautiful. If you want to dress in plain conservative clothing to show you are part of a Christian community have at it. If you want to give up drinking any alcoholic beverages -- could be a beautiful sacrifice. If you want to not celebrate Christmas as a statement/reaction that Christmas has become commercialized -- awesome idea. If you want to pray in an empty barn -- perfect. But be careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Those things can all be beautiful attempts to get closer to God, but they are not ends in themselves.

Jesus' first miracle was turning water into wine. He was not opposed to such joy. Bright, ornate clothes do not make one a heathen. Christmas can be reverently celebrated and draw one closer to Jesus in the process. Lavish places of worship help lift the hearts of those who aren't surrounded by such architectural beauty in their ordinary lives. All good things can be misused and something we ought to be aware of, but don't get hung up on self imposed scandal. Put the focus on the big guy not on judging others for praying the "wrong way"