"God hates the wicked".

[ttruscott]

I was asked the following questions in a locked thread:

"God hates the wicked". Are you saying that parents, spouses and even children are (by default) "wicked" and worthy of hate?

So, because God hates people, yet treats them with love (???) we are supposed to do the same towards our parents, even, our spouses and our children? Hate them, but treat them with love?

Doesn't that mean we are supposed to consider others, including our loves ones, as intrinsically "hate-able"?

I must be misunderstanding what you are saying here.

I answer:

"God hates the wicked". Are you saying that parents, spouses and even children are (by default) "wicked" and worthy of hate? "

No sir, not at all. As per Matt 13: 36-40 I contend that there are two types of sinners born on earth, (only sinners are born on earth): sinful believers who are not condemned but are under the promise of redemption and sinful non-believers who are condemned already for rejecting YHWH as worthy of faith, Jn 3:18. The wicked are those who by their own choice are eternally evil, condemned to hell. The sinful people of the kingdom are not the wicked to be hated but are lost, astray in sin, to be loved back into the family of GOD. Since we do not know who that is, we are to treat all with love though to be willing to reject them totally when we are called to shut the gates of hell upon them.

Since broad is the way to perdition and narrow the gate to salvation, I suspect that the verse about not idolizing family members above the call of Christ is a pretty universal Christian experience.

The verse about loving those you hate is Matthew 5:45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. Since if referring to the name of a natural emotion, love and hate are mutually exclusive (to my mind) I must refer to one of these as the actions one must take toward the recipient of the other. Since no one would act hateful to those they love, then this suggests that though we hate the wicked, (as GOD does), we should act as loving toward them as is possible within HIS justice (as GOD does).[/quote]

So, because God hates people, yet treats them with love (???) we are supposed to do the same towards our parents, even, our spouses and our children? Hate them, but treat them with love?

Ahhh, here is where hate does not refer to the raw emotion but to action, specifically the separation in our hearts from their influence over us, 2 Corinthians 6:17 Therefore, "Come out from them and be separate, says the Lord. Touch no unclean thing, and I will receive you." does not refer to a strict segregation of body but of heart and soul... As GOD walks among the wicked but is not touched by them, so too are we called to walk among the worldly, family or not, ready at all times to accept GOD's call that the time of the judgement is at hand and to come out means to be willingly and fully on HIS side of the gates when they are shut on the wicked forever.

Doesn't that mean we are supposed to consider others, including our loves ones, as intrinsically "hate-able"?

Yes, from ourselves out to all. Every sin is detestable from any sinner but hate is the willingness to damn the sin and the sinner to hell. Since we do not know who that will be we hold our judgement in abeyance until all is revealed but we stand ready with GOD to purge all of reality from evil.

[FWI]

[Replying to post 3 by imhereforyou]

I wonder, though, with all the 'experts' who have, are and will translate the bible into other languages (and even the same language again in an effort to better understand it) don't make this connection and include it in their translation in some form?

Actually some have. The NKJV uses the term "unloved" verses hate and the NIV uses "loved more" verses hate, in the example I used. However, it is difficult for the "experts" to agree or admit that they or their colleagues may have made mistakes or didn't understand the true intended meaning of books, chapters and verses in translations or commentaries. There is the pride factor and possibly the most important: money. The religious groups, which support the "experts" (financially), surely have their influence on what is included in the bibles, which they have paid to be published.

Or, perhaps, there is no distinction on which to make?

But, there is. Those who desire to be followers of God need to trust in God and not man for the knowledge of truth, which is related to the instruction we are given. So, if we lack in personal research, study and prayer, the truth could become lost to us.

[William]

The way I heard it, GOD hates eggs. Not only because the original design was rough and square (because GOD hates chickens as well) but for some unrevealed reason they came out smooth and birthable.

GOD also hates cursing and curses all curses which is significantly self-harm, but treatable.

As well as this, GOD hates mirrors because he cannot get a reflection out of them. This has lead to GOD demanding that humans should adore him and be his mirror. GOD hates all humans who won't comply, unless they also [strike]don't like[/strike] hate eggs.

When you stand before GOD you are upside-down but won't know it. That is because GOD hates upsides, so there are only downsides but you will be too dim to see any of this and GOD hates dim, so you are particular pointless, except that without you the true scotts of the world would not be loved by GOD, especially when standing before him.

Ignore this at your own peril.

You have be warned oh wicked witches and wizards. You eggs!

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 12 by William]

Ignore this at your own peril.

Maybe these are perilous times.

[ttruscott]

Actually some have. The NKJV uses the term "unloved" verses hate and the NIV uses "loved more" verses hate, in the example I used. However, it is difficult for the "experts" to agree or admit that they or their colleagues may have made mistakes or didn't understand the true intended meaning of books, chapters and verses in translations or commentaries.

Are these not theological decisions rather than decisions about the meaning of the words?

[FWI]

[Replying to ttruscott]

Are these not theological decisions rather than decisions about the meaning of the words?

No, I don't think so. However, I would agree with you that the translators who used the word "hate" and its derivatives to express a negative emotion of God and others, within their translations did so, because of theological reasons.

Yet, it seems that the application of common sense, has been ignored by many.

[brianbbs67]

Actually some have. The NKJV uses the term "unloved" verses hate and the NIV uses "loved more" verses hate, in the example I used. However, it is difficult for the "experts" to agree or admit that they or their colleagues may have made mistakes or didn't understand the true intended meaning of books, chapters and verses in translations or commentaries.

Are these not theological decisions rather than decisions about the meaning of the words?

Its not the meaning of words, its what words were meant. That's why I defer to the Tanakh, as its translated once, less room for error and has been accepted for 3000 years. The NT is another story to me. There are additions , mistranslations and I assume subtractions. So I believe but view it skeptically and verify a lot that seems contradictory.

God of course, hates some actions and things. He says so. But, when hate is inserted when it is not what was meant by the Greek, I look for the truth. I don't think thru the lens of doctrine. IE, I don't want to prove what I believe is correct. I want to find what is correct thru God. I am open to change my beliefs if I am shown they are in error. My "doctrine " is fluid as I gain wisdom and knowledge.

[tam]

[Replying to post 1 by ttruscott]


Peace to you!


In answer to the OP title question, of course we are to love. Christ told us we must do this: love our friends and our enemies, that we may be sons of our Father in heaven.

Loving someone of course means that we will treat them with love (don't we show our love - just as we show our faith - with works?)



To the rest of the OP:


Just because God can do something, does not mean that WE can do the same thing. That is suggesting that we are on the same level as God. We are not. God can judge... we cannot. Not just because God is above all (though this is true)... or just because God is the Judge (also true)... but also because "by the measure you use, it will be used against you."

If we judge, we bring judgment upon ourselves. Because WE all sin. God does not. And there is also the golden rule - do unto others as you would have them do to you. If you want to be loved, then you must love.

Christ loved both His friends and His enemies (those who persecuted Him and handed Him over to be executed). He asked forgiveness for them; He gave His life even for them.


**



As for our families, we (Christians) have been given many examples by God to reassure us that our loved ones will be with us in the Kingdom (either serving with us as kings and priests... or entering as subjects of the Kingdom).

Noah saved his entire household because of his faith. Rahab saved her household because of her faith. Abraham saved his entire household (and all of Israel) because of his faith. The angels sent to Sodom and Gomorroah told Lot to bring out all who belonged to him. (genesis 19:12) Lot was the righteous one, but those who belonged to him were permitted to come with him. (Yes, his wife turned around despite the warning against this and she died... but she was not killed as some sort of punishment, and Lot will receive her back at the resurrection.) And in Egypt, during passover, Israel was to place the blood of the lamb on their doorposts. If they did this, Death would pass OVER that entire house, and every person IN that household was protected.

Christ is the Lamb. His blood covers us and our household.

Even Paul said that the unbelieving spouse would be sanctified through the mate who IS sanctified by Christ. That the children of such a couple would be made holy because of the mate who IS covered by Christ.



Would not love also do this? Save also our loved ones?


I, myself, cannot imagine going through life, somehow loving my children, but at the same time preparing myself to be ready and fine for the day when I may have to cut them off and watch the gates of hell be shut upon them. That would not be love, as I understand love. That would be fear, judgment, dread. How can a person love FREELY like that? I don't see the love in that. Certainly not PERFECT love - which casts OUT fear.


One of the MANY blessings of serving Christ and JAH is that we can be assured (we can know; have faith) that our loved ones (our households) will be with us in the Kingdom. This is just one more reason we have TO love Christ and JAH.



**

The reason we are to love Christ MOST is not because we have to be ready "to reject our families or to close the gates of hell upon them." We are to love Christ and God FIRST and MOST because we obey the one we love the most.


"Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them."

If we love our mother, father, brother, son, daughter, uncle, etc, the MOST... then we will hesitate (or not do it at all) to follow and obey Christ when our family is at odds with Him. We will instead follow along with our family, putting them first. What good are we to the Kingdom if we do that? What good are we to our families, our children, if we do that? We won't be able to intercede for them. We won't be able to lead by example. We won't be able to serve them in Truth. We would just be following along with them in their error.


By loving Christ most and putting Him and His Father first, we are better able to serve (and even to love) our families.



**

May anyone who wishes them be given ears to hear, so as to know the truth of this matter from the TRUTH (Christ Jaheshua). May anyone who thirsts and wishes also "Come! Take the free gift of the water of Life!"


(which water is holy spirit, poured out from Christ, the Life)



Peace to you and to your households,
your servant and a slave of Christ Jaheshua,
tammy

[ttruscott]

Would not love also do this? Save also our loved ones?

The call to not love them above Him means to relinquish them in our hearts, though we love them, to GOD's mercy or justice as HE sees fit, not to try to force HIM to care especially for them because we do...

[tam]

Would not love also do this? Save also our loved ones?

The call to not love them above Him means to relinquish them in our hearts, though we love them, to GOD's mercy or justice as HE sees fit, not to try to force HIM to care especially for them because we do...

Who said anything about force, Ted?

[ttruscott]

Would not love also do this? Save also our loved ones?

The call to not love them above Him means to relinquish them in our hearts, though we love them, to GOD's mercy or justice as HE sees fit, not to try to force HIM to care especially for them because we do...

Who said anything about force, Ted?

I did Miss Tam, in the context of Matt 10:36 A man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’ 37 Anyone who loves his father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me; which implies that some elect might cling to their love for their family rather than follow Him as they have yet to learn the full lesson of Matt 13:28 ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’ 29 ‘No, he said, ‘if you pull the weeds now, you might uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest. that it is our love of the non-elect which makes us have to live with their sin and which postpones the judgement of cleansing until the good seed are mature in holiness and righteousness.