Bibal ethics

[Cogitoergosum]

A few examples:

1/ U leave on a weekend trip, ur kids stay home, u tell them not to misbehave but they do, so you drown them or put them on fire.
(flood of noah, sodom and gomorra)

2/ u disagree with your boss, he is being unfare, so u kill every first born in the boss' family. (angels killing first borns of egyptian families)

3/ ur first son forgets to say thanks once and u deny him what he wanted the most. (god kills moses before he could go into the promised land)

and the list goes on...where are the ethics?

[Confused]

Confused,

I believe that you have arrived at the crux of the problem. HOW do you apply those ethical precepts in any society. I guess we start with basics, treating OURSELVES compassionately, reaching out to others on an individual basis, joining with other folk which enables us to extend our reach by giving some group strength to our endeavours.

But it has to start with me, myself before I can affect the actions / ethical patterns of others. In Exodus there is a very interesting verse right at the end of a series of prohibitions.

6 "You shall not pervert the justice due to your poor in his lawsuit. 7 Keep far from a false charge, and do not kill the innocent and righteous, for I will not acquit the wicked. 8 And you shall take no bribe, for a bribe blinds the clear-sighted and subverts the cause of those who are in the right.

9 "You shall not oppress a sojourner. You know the heart of a sojourner, for you were sojourners in the land of Egypt.

What is being said here is "You were once strangers, at the mercies of others, you know what Justice and mercy denied feel like, treat those who are strangers in YOUR midst differently than you were treated by others."

So the principle of starting with the self and working out is sound but MOST folk prefer to not even engage with themselves, let alone others. There is IMO no way to force ethical behaviour in others other than to be an example of it yourself.

Hard, hard, hard!

Kiwimac

Ex 23:6-9 (ESV)

I would agree to the crux of the issue. The problem though is that God has allowed evil to reside on earth. Because of this, should you practice what has been preached, you would be homeless, starving, or dead by now. Why? Because God doesn't say not to give to the sinners. He says just the opposite. In todays society, how can we consider these viable ethics? How can we apply them to todays society? You say it has to begin with oneself. I am willing to apply that. Every day I go to work I am exposed to some of the most virulent diseases and risk becoming infected myself. I am willing to start with myself, but tell me, what do you think will happen the first time I allow a stranger in my home and he robs me, or donate to the less fortunate to the point in which they keep asking and I can no longer pay my own bills and I end up on the streets with my own children? What do you think will happen the first time a crack smoker high as a kite comes in belligerent and violent and hits me and I turn the other cheek and say I forgive him? I have said this before and I will say it now, God is long overdue for updating the Bible because it just can't be that valid in todays society. The ethics of the times of Christ aren't so much the ethical dilemmas we face today. They are very different. And the answer isn't so simple that a mere passage can resolve the issue. So what ethics can we still apply to today?

Code: Select all

[Greatest I Am]

Do we consider a fight between one of us and an ant a fair fight. Not likely.
How then can we possibly beleive that a God who wants to teach morals and ethics would do violence, in anger, to basically helpless man. I doubt that from His lofty perch, God would be sitting there pulling wings from flies.

I suggest that we all perge our bibles of all references to God killing man.
I know that this shrinks the bible considerably but I see no choice if God is to maintain His beleivability factor.

[Cogitoergosum]

So you might yet be a little previous in asserting Joshua's Genocidal nature. Further while genocide is rightly considered evil that is a MODERN view and certainly not that held by ANY tribe in that area at that time.

Exactly ur god is as barbaric and ignorant as the tribes of that time who made him up. thank you for conceiding my point.

[kiwimac]

And you are missing my point. Which is that all experience of God is human mediated, necessarily, and so what may appear to our thinking to be the voice of God can be to others a mere rationale to allow us to do what we like.

God is not barbaric but the people of the time WERE and yet we still have in the passages I quoted somewhat earlier a standard of ethics that we have trouble meeting today. This paradox, I believe, shows something of the Light shining through.

kiwimac

[Cogitoergosum]

Kiwimac u don't get to pick and choose from the bible what u like and fits ur theory to assertain that god is good. In the same referrence that is held holy god apparently mentions everything and their opposites. If people choose from the bible what is good, it is becaue THEY think it is good because it brings them joy. If some people choose what is bad, it is beacuse they have an agenda.
NOBODY can say that his morals derive from the bible since it contains a few good things and lot of evil. Ur morals derive from somewhere else.
the GOD of abraham is a fantasy like the phoenician baal and the greek zeus.

[Confused]

And you are missing my point. Which is that all experience of God is human mediated, necessarily, and so what may appear to our thinking to be the voice of God can be to others a mere rationale to allow us to do what we like.

God is not barbaric but the people of the time WERE and yet we still have in the passages I quoted somewhat earlier a standard of ethics that we have trouble meeting today. This paradox, I believe, shows something of the Light shining through.

kiwimac

So how does one determine what is the voice of God and what isn't?

[Goat]

And you are missing my point. Which is that all experience of God is human mediated, necessarily, and so what may appear to our thinking to be the voice of God can be to others a mere rationale to allow us to do what we like.

God is not barbaric but the people of the time WERE and yet we still have in the passages I quoted somewhat earlier a standard of ethics that we have trouble meeting today. This paradox, I believe, shows something of the Light shining through.

kiwimac

So how does one determine what is the voice of God and what isn't?

Oh, in my opinion it's simple.

If I hear it, it's god speaking to me.

If you hear it, or someone else hears it, it is an audible hallucination, or satan (take your pick).. unless you agree with me, and then maybe it's god.

[Cathar1950]

Hey can we change the title to either "bible ethics" or Babel ethics"?
I saw this joke on belief net and I have seen it before but I still like it.


Odd Rabbi Out

These four rabbis had a series of theological arguments, and three were always in accord against the fourth. One day, the odd rabbi out, after the usual "3 to 1, majority rules" statement that signified that he had lost again, decided to appeal to a higher authority.

"Oh, God!" he cried. "I know in my heart that I am right and they are wrong! Please give me a sign to prove it to them!"

It was a beautiful, sunny day. As soon as the rabbi finished his prayer, a storm cloud moved across the sky above the four. It rumbled once and dissolved. "A sign from God! See, I'm right, I knew it!" But the other three disagreed, pointing out that storm clouds form on hot days.

So the rabbi prayed again: "Oh, God, I need a bigger sign to show that I am right and they are wrong. So please, God, a bigger sign!" This time four storm clouds appeared, rushed toward each other to form one big cloud, and a bolt of lightning slammed into a tree on a nearby hill."I told you I was right!" cried the rabbi, but his friends insisted that nothing had happened that could not be explained by natural causes.

The rabbi was getting ready to ask for a VERY big sign, but just as he said, "Oh God...," the sky turned pitch black, the earth shook, and a deep, booming voice intoned, "HEEEEEEEE'S RIIIIIIIGHT!"

The rabbi put his hands on his hips, turned to the other three, and said, "Well?"

"So," shrugged one of the other rabbis, "now it's 3 to 2."