To listen to many here on this site, one would think that the Bible is irredeemably bad, and the God of the Bible is wicked.
Now for this topic, I am not saying the Bible is perfect. And I am not saying that the Bible always perfectly represents God, nor am I attempting to prove that God exists.
But the question for debate is this. IF the Bible and the God of the Bible are as bad as it is claimed so often here, (especially on this forum), they why does so much good come from them?
As Jesus said, "a bad tree cannot produce good fruit".
And consider the good fruit the Bible and the God of the Bible has produced.
-They have been a source of comfort and strength for millions in difficult times.
-They have motivavate millions to be their best, and live lives of virtue, compassion and generosity.
-They have inspired many charities, and philanthropic movements.
-They have produced many wise, reflective and peace loving sages, including many Jews, Christians, and by extention, Muslims too.
Are these fruits insignificant? Does the Bible and the God of the Bible still stand indicted as "wicked or evil"?
How can so much good come from something so "bad"?
If God and the Bible are so bad,
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Elijah John
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If God and the Bible are so bad,
Post #1 My theological positions:
-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.
I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.
-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.
I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.
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Willum
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Post #11
[Replying to post 9 by Elijah John]
Truth is a hard won thing, and given the entire Torah is plagiarized from other peoples' fairy tales and stories, and truth is far easier emulated than derived, it seems a safe bet that, after Rome arrived in Jerusalem, it's philosophies springing up independently is small.
Remember, that Roman influence was there, despite Hebrew myth, long before there was any Hebrew myth.
Truth is a hard won thing, and given the entire Torah is plagiarized from other peoples' fairy tales and stories, and truth is far easier emulated than derived, it seems a safe bet that, after Rome arrived in Jerusalem, it's philosophies springing up independently is small.
Remember, that Roman influence was there, despite Hebrew myth, long before there was any Hebrew myth.
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Elijah John
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Post #12
Please demonstrate that the "entire" Torah was "plagiarized".Willum wrote: [Replying to post 9 by Elijah John]
Truth is a hard won thing, and given the entire Torah is plagiarized from other peoples' fairy tales and stories, and truth is far easier emulated than derived, it seems a safe bet that, after Rome arrived in Jerusalem, it's philosophies springing up independently is small.
Remember, that Roman influence was there, despite Hebrew myth, long before there was any Hebrew myth.
Please demonstrate that Greco-Roman influence was present at the time of the writing of the Torah.
Not other Middle Eastern cultures, (Messopotamian, Caananite etc) but Mediterranean.
My theological positions:
-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.
I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.
-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.
I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.
-
Willum
- Savant
- Posts: 9017
- Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 2:14 pm
- Location: Yahweh's Burial Place
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Post #13
[Replying to post 12 by Elijah John]
The entire Torah?
You mean every single meaningless story? and only then will you believe the thing is plagiarized?
Sorry, I don't have that kind of time.
But, I guess we can start generally:
The oldest Torah is only 800 years old.
Jewish monotheism began in 200 CE.
The Dead Sea Scroll are not good representations of the Torah, except in the unverified dreams and claims of religious people. (That's on you to show there is verisimilitude between DSS and modern fairy tales.)
Since there is only 800 years of proof, the stories must have come from elsewhere.
Since Noah is preceded by Zi-ud-sura and Cain and Able are preceded by Sirius and Set, and so on and so on - it doesn't leave you with much of a leg to stand on.
Name a Torah story that isn't preceded by another older myth.
The entire Torah?
You mean every single meaningless story? and only then will you believe the thing is plagiarized?
Sorry, I don't have that kind of time.
But, I guess we can start generally:
The oldest Torah is only 800 years old.
Jewish monotheism began in 200 CE.
The Dead Sea Scroll are not good representations of the Torah, except in the unverified dreams and claims of religious people. (That's on you to show there is verisimilitude between DSS and modern fairy tales.)
Since there is only 800 years of proof, the stories must have come from elsewhere.
Since Noah is preceded by Zi-ud-sura and Cain and Able are preceded by Sirius and Set, and so on and so on - it doesn't leave you with much of a leg to stand on.
Name a Torah story that isn't preceded by another older myth.
