JW organization.

[Elijah John]

Jehovah's Witnesses are not allowed to:

-vote
-celebrate birthdays
-celebrate Christmas or Easter
-donate or receive blood transfusions.

And if any JW openly persists in doing these things[edit to add publicly], they will be shunned or disfellowshipped, [edit to add or otherwise admonished or disciplined.]

For debate,

1) what do any of these check-list prohibitions have to do with Christianity?

2) And are any of these prohibitions compatible with the idea of Christian freedom?

3) Are these prohibitions arbitrary or legalistic?

4) And could Jehvoah's Witness as an organization flourish without these particular prohibitions and still honor God?

Please address any or all of the above.

[shnarkle]

[Replying to post 557 by shnarkle]

-quote]OK, if they are synonomous, is the will of God good and life affirming unto itself?

No, it is also good and life affirming to the world.

Or does it only (or pimarily) exist to demonstrate "our need for a Savior"?

That as well. Admitting we can't lift ourselves up by our own bootstraps is life affirming.

Are people "under a curse" if they embrace the will of God

No.

and attempt to abide by it?

Not if the attempt is successfully accomplished as a "new creature in Christ"

To embrace His will from the heart as a way of life?

If by "from the heart" you are referring to the new heart God gives to those so that htey may keep his commandments, then no they are not under the "curse". The curse of the law is the same law that Paul refers to as the law that was "added because of transgressions" Do you know the difference? There is the law that was for our benefit, and the law that was "against us".

After all, didn't Jesus himself describe the way of salvation, (that leads to life) as a path or a road?

Sure.

Where did Jesus ever describe the Law as a "curse"? Meant primarily to demonstrate our need for a Savior?

I don't recall him putting it in those terms, but he clearly upheld the law which for those who didn't believe him meant that they were clearly already condemned. Jesus clearly pointed out that those who ignored the law or annuled it through their false interpretations, traditions etc. were damned.

I'm getting the impression that you're not familiar with the Mosaic law because you don't seem to understand the difference between the commandments and the law that was "added because of transgressions" as a "witness against us".

The commandments were writtten on stone tablets and placed inside the Ark while the scroll was handwritten and placed beside the Ark. The latter is a witness against those who transgressed the law (Deut. 31:26), and with the advent of the new creature who is given a heart to keep God's commandments, there is now no condemnation, no curse no witness against those who no longer transgress God's law. Those who continue to transgress God's laws still have that witness against them.

[ttruscott]

One, He is God. He knew we would forget and break His instructions if left to our own devices.

Indeed YHWH is GOD. But if HIS being all knowing includes knowing the details of the fall then HE would have also known who would end in hell, the serpent and all, but created them to eternal suffering anyway, a pagan blasphemy accepted into the church by those who idolised Greek wisdom.

God sees the end from the beginning, therefore he knows the outcome already.

Yes but the end of what from the beginning of what? I contend that this means HE knows the outcome of life as a sinner on earth from the beginnings of life as a sinner on earth. It does not mean that HE knows our fates from before our creation on earth to the end of life on earth as that denies HIS loving kindness in a way I struggled with and rejected as a child and turned against HIM because HIS supposed church taught this blasphemy.

It isn't that he desires the outcome, but we tend to think that our free will decision negates God's omniscience; it doesn't. Just because God knows that some will choose death over life, doesn't mean that he wills it.

HIS will never abrogates our free will nor can I believe that HE knows who will end in hell before they were created but created them anyway.

But that is just me, I'm a bit more scrupulous about HIS divinity than some others, sigh.

[shnarkle]

[Replying to post 567 by ttruscott]

It does not mean that HE knows our fates from before our creation on earth to the end of life on earth as that denies HIS loving kindness

I don't see how that necessarily follows. Jesus' parable of the sower doesn't suggest that the sower doesn't know he's tossing seed on the road, into the thorns, etc. Only the fertile soil grows bumper crops, and there's no reason I can see why a God with an infinite supply of loving kindness is going to be stingy with it.

I suppose one could make the argument that given the sheer amount of loving kindness, the odds are good that there are going to be many who will be saved, but this doesn't negate the fact that God knows many aren't. So this doesn't fix your problem. It only allows a God who doesn't know who is going to be damned which doesn't sound like much of an improvement.

[brianbbs67]

[Replying to post 567 by ttruscott]

Jeremiah's God seems to contradict that.

"Before I created you in the womb, I selected you, Before you were born, Iconsecrated you; I appointed you a prophet concerning the nations.

https://www.biblehub.com/jeremiah/1-5.htm