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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 1: Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:10 pm
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Logically Applying Requirements for God

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I think a huge motivator for debate here stems around us (fallible humans) applying requirements for what God (the omnipotent, omniscient, and perhaps all-loving Being) should have, especially in regards to moral stances and decisions.

1) Now on the one hand, there is the argument that we can't confidently make requirements for God. If we come from a stance of ignorance and God from a stance of all-knowing, we could make a requirement that is incorrect for God.

ex) A good God should believe x is wrong and y is right. A good God should have interfered to prevent so-and-so events from happening.

2) On the other hand, if we solely take on the previous view then how can we make any progress whatsoever for confidently saying what God should be like? Surely there must be some logical way to make requirements for what God should be like even though we are ignorant and not perfect and God by definition is perfect.

(1) and (2) are at odds with each other. Where do we go from here?

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 2: Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:23 pm
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Re: Logically Applying Requirements for God

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[Replying to post 1 by jgh7]

First, I support the notion of an entirely good God given by The 10 Commandments and The Golden Rule. The Bible also says that all of God's creation should be respected and it means the animals, plants and the rest too!

I think most Christians sigh by any the idiot thoughts that we are supposed to go around listening for God's commands when in fact the only words from God we have are in the Bible! Absolutely!

Also, God resides in the all good place of Heaven. The heavy history of Catholicism by eg. The Purgatory proves this. If God is supposed to be both good and evil why the existence of Satan, The Devil, Belial, Belzebub, Mammon and Hell (obviously, where God does not reside)!

So, finally, read the Bible with the God of goodness in heart, charitably, and the Bible "opens up" to you!

Best wishes! Very Happy

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 3: Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:41 pm
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There are some things we can say from philosophy. For example, God's existence is a necessary existence and does not require anything external to it to give it existence. As for moral questions - we depend largely on revelation and the inspired writings that have come to us down through the ages. These revelations come to us in different forms and in different religions but the essence of all true religions is the same.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 4: Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:33 am
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Re: Logically Applying Requirements for God

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jgh7 wrote:


Surely there must be some logical way to make requirements for what God should be like even though we are ignorant and not perfect and God by definition is perfect.



God by definition is perfect? Maybe by your definition. God by my definition is a mythological being which no one should waste their time believing in.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 5: Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:04 pm
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Re: Logically Applying Requirements for God

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[Replying to post 4 by Tcg]

I was talking about the philosophical God that is typically used for general debates. This God is defined as being all-powerful (omnipotent), all-knowing (omniscient), and all-present (omnipresent).

But thanks for your 2 cents. It was a real shocker to hear that you of all people don't believe in God.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 6: Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:16 pm
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Quote:
God by my definition is a mythological being which no one should waste their time believing in.


Atheists by my definition are the dumbest, most illogical people on the planet. Things sure get easy when you can make up your own definition of stuff.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 7: Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:35 pm
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[Replying to post 6 by Walterbl]

That's weird. In my experience this is what atheists general say about theists.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 8: Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:18 am
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As far as the moral attributes of God are concerned, I think the general tendency amongst philosophers and theologians is to ascribe infinite greatness to God, and therefore the possession of all (good) moral qualities to an infinite extent. But we are immediately confronted with the existence of evil in His world.

Quote:
Either God cannot abolish evil, or he will not; if he cannot then he is not all-powerful; and if he will not then he is not [all-good]."[1]


So, in defense of the philosopher's 'omnimax' version of God (omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, etc) my thinking, for what it's worth, runs as follows:

God could abolish evil, but chooses not to. Evil serves God's purposes quite as much as Good does. Chiefly these macro-purposes could be:

1) Evil gives us moral choice and makes of us moral agents. If there was no possibility of evil, we could claim no credit for being good.
2) Evil makes life interesting and purposeful; in combating evil, we have something useful and fulfilling to do with our lives.
3) Evil prompts us to explore the world and discover how it works, in our efforts to prevent it.
4) Corollary to 2) and 3) A world without evil would be an incredibly boring place in which to live.
5) It seems that God prizes our free choice to associate with Him almost more than any other consideration. So, finally, in order to abolish evil, God would have to act secretly, so that atheists would still have reasonable grounds not to believe, according to their disposition. And by definition, we do not know how many evils have been divinely destroyed, in secret from us.

This is how my poor second rate mind attempts to reconcile a good God with all the omni attributes generally ascribed to Him and the existence of evil, anyway.

Best wishes, 2RM
[1]St. Augustine: Confessions


Last edited by 2ndRateMind on Sun Jul 22, 2018 9:02 am; edited 3 times in total

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 9: Sun Jul 22, 2018 8:24 am
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2ndRateMind wrote:

1) Evil gives us moral choice and makes us moral agents.


It also provides evolutionary pressure.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 10: Sun Jul 22, 2018 9:27 am
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mgb wrote:

2ndRateMind wrote:

1) Evil gives us moral choice and makes us moral agents.


It also provides evolutionary pressure.


Indeed so. One can well imagine dinosaurs thinking meteor strikes a thoroughly bad thing. But humans evolved, because that happened. Similarly, one can contemplate self-replicating artificial intelligences discussing ethics, and concluding it was a shame about the nuclear conflagration that destroyed humanity, but good that they had the chance to develop us to a point of independence before they annihilated themselves.

Who knows where God's plan is eventually headed?

Best wishes, 2RM.

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