Who is the Holy Spirit?

[marco]

The Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit inspires folk. The Muses had that role too.

Is the Spirit a reality outside of our reality, one who can - like Proteus - appear in different forms as the notion takes him? Divinities in Classical mythology had their functions: they oversaw the arts, or healing or war. What would be the point of the Holy Spirit? If God wished to inspire fisher folk he could do it instantaneously by a moment's thought; instead we have a curious waiting period, then comes the Spirit into a room and literally inspires. Are we not just a little suspicious that this is a borrowing from an existing mythology, a dramatic explanation of Christ's propaganda?


Is there sense in the Holy Spirit being some divinity? Or is he a personification of inspiration? How do we view him?

[marco]

May I please ask for a further explanation of your statement, "I learned these things under penalty of torture and death."?

I am surprised you need to ask this. Let us take the threat In Matthew25: 41 which darkened my childhood:


“Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:�

The comparable Islamic threat is that Allah burns the unbeliever for ever, constantly renewing the scorched flesh to cause more pain.

The Bible is THE written document by which God communicates to us.

It isn't; the Koran purports to be. The Bible writers were supposedly inspired, but an examination of their accounts of events, such as the resurrection details, shows inconsistencies. They hardly matter in a human text but ascribe them to God and they do matter.

It is the Christlike peaceful nature of the Christian faith that those that leave it are not punished. Jesus did not have the seventy disciples that left Him punished. Jesus only wants those that serve Him to do it voluntarily out of love, gratitude, and trust, not out of coercion.

That is a benign if personal view of things. "There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth," or

Revelation 21:8 "But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death."

I accept that this sounds like stupidity, but you are saying that God wrote it. Or do we select the bits of the Bible that don't make us blush?

No. I cannot agree with your claim there was no Adam. Who told you this by what authority?

Did God call him Adam? Did he have a surname? Did he live in a garden rather than in a cave or a house? Was Eve created witless? Did God really play hide and seek with them to the extent we are told that God asked why they were hiding. If taken literally the story is a gross embarrassment; if we squeeze a figurative meaning from it, we can at least remove some nonsense. There is more sense in Greek mythology which at least gives us explanations for the flowers, hyacinth and narcissus.

[Erexsaur]

[Replying to brunumb]

Hello Brunumb,

Welcome to the conversation. This post in to answer your post 77.

In response to my statement, "The Bible is THE written document by which God communicates to us. It's as essential as the documentation necessary for court cases.", you said,

That is nothing more than an unsupported assertion. It is laughable to consider than the creator of the universe in all its complexity was incapable of communicating in a more direct way without all the inherent clumsiness and flawed processes that led to the Bible.

I speak from knowledge. Did the document that gave us the Decalogue and instructions to do unto others as we would desire unto ourselves come from a book that originated with clumsy, flawed processes? God does speak to us more directly through conscience and a prayer life.

More quotes:

That's one interpretation of what is happening. Another is that there are no intermediaries and that preachers are merely communicating their own beliefs while attributing them to a non-existent higher source.

And...

Or they are moved by their own motivations and there is nothing actually coming to them from any alleged supernatural being.

But the confusion you spoke of above is not present in all preachers. Are there not good as well as bad?

The Bible sternly warns that its truth must be rightly divided. It is written:

"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth (2 Timothy 2:15)."

Although true that peripheral meanings of scripture may be colored by followers by different groups, is the central message presented properly? The apostle Paul tells us:

"For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified (1 Corinthians 2 :2)"

The OT prophet is tested by whether his prophecy comes to pass or not. As the OT prophets spoke only what God gave them to speak, so do today's preachers speak only what the spirit gives by keeping in touch with God. Should anyone throw away that which is essential and valuable only because of fear of someone mishandling it?

You only gave another example for the need not only to be born again of the spirit but to stay in touch with the spirit of God that's the subject of this leg. What do you think we should do with the following?:

"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned (1 Corinthians 2: 14)."

What separates the natural man from the spiritual man? Hint: when a person prays for a safe journey for himself or another, who or what does he depend on to help the driver and protect the transportation? Is it anything natural? Is it luck? Of course not! Staying in touch with God in prayer is essential. It advances the mind beyond carnality and only an enemy would discourage it. Those you spoke of that erred were out of touch.

Are you aware there's also a much greater danger of missing out on vital truth for fear of it being mishandled?

Sin is not an agent. It does not do anything. It is an invented concept designed to label actions allegedly offensive to God.

Are you saying that it was an invention of man that made stealing, lying, murder, etc. bad for you and me? Are you saying that someone lying to and stealing from you does not offend you? These things are bad to God because they are bad to all of us.

This is a commonly used accusation and excuse for why people fail to buy into your religion. It is just a furphy and completely without merit. I have no belief in God and that is not through any desire to oppress it in order to oppose God. I have led a very moral life with no desire to commit crimes or hurt other people. From my experience, I can confidently say that my life has been more in line with the teachings of Jesus than many Christians. I thank my evolution-given intellect for allowing me to use reason and logic to avoid religious indoctrination.

But where did you get the power to live morally without a desire to harm others? By what standard? Where did the standard originate? Where did you find reason not to do harm? What if you lived in a land without the Bible-based laws similar to those that protect us in the West? What should you do about the fact that like us all, have we not all stole or lied at least once? These things cry for the need for reconciliation.

Have you considered any possibility that evolution may be an invented concept of man that's designed to offend God? It certainly does by drawing people away from the truth that God created and gave us unalienable rights.

Did Jesus teach that man evolved? He spoke of the Sabbath: what connection has the seven day week with evolution? Speaking about religious indoctrination, have you considered any possibility that evolution may also be called a religion in the sense that belief in it dutifully bars any consideration of the existence of God under the guise of science?

Earl

[Erexsaur]

[Replying to post 78 by brunumb]

Hello again, Brunumb,

This post answers post #78 and #79.

To answer my statement about Christian persecution, you said,

It wouldn't be an issue if they weren't constantly trying to impose their religious beliefs on others through the education or legal systems. That surely amounts to coercion.

Persecution of Christians is largely based on propaganda and myth. In the early days they were the most intolerant of all religious groups. But I guess it's a convenient badge to wear as no one likes to be regarded as a persecutor.

You are speaking of intolerance of what? Aren't there wrongs that should never be tolerated under any circumstance? Is promoting right and pointing out wrong coercion?

We live in a day where wrong (not your or my opinion of wrong) is being made to appear as normal and right and right is made to appear as abnormal and wrong by making laws to support and protect wrong as if right. But that does not make wrong right. What do we do with Isaiah 5:26?

The making of these wrongs to appear right is only another way to make it "lawfully right" for further Christian persecution. Jesus warns that as long as the world hates Him, so are His followers hated.

Do you remember the crowd that wanted Jesus crucified even though Jesus did nothing wrong? Do you remember what happened to Stephen beginning at Acts 6:9? In both cases, they were hated becsuse they exposed underlying corruption in those supposedly involved in good work.

For post #79

In response to my statement, "Gullibility is not the product of faith,... " you said,

Correct. Faith can be the product of faith. But faith can also be reached through indoctrination of the vulnerable mind. Reason, logic and evidence are rarely involved in the process.

And

Not even close. Gullibility is a failure of social intelligence in which a person is easily tricked or manipulated into an ill-advised course of action. It is closely related to credulity, which is the tendency to believe unlikely propositions that are unsupported by evidence. The latter part is particularly pertinent when considering the contents of the Bible. It also illustrates why most Christians are produced in their formative years when they largely incapable of evaluating the information they are being force fed.

I was taught the Bible by my mother during my early years and I Thank her much for doing so. Evaluation and application of Biblical truth to this day has enriched me with much knowledge and wisdom. I'm afraid to think where I would be now if she didn't teach me.

Force-feeding people is anathema to us. Much of our work is to counter those that force-feed ungodly doctrine.

As you responded to my statement, "Do you call yourself gullible because you have faith in your mom and dad, or because you buy from a merchant that you trust (have faith in)? Of course not!", you said,

It all depends on what your parents are telling you and how much credence you give to it. Parents rely on the unquestioning acceptance of what they teach their children in order to impart religious indoctrination. As for merchants, I develop trust in their integrity based on their track record. That is the best we can do, until they betray that trust. Faith doesn't come into it at all.

What religious indoctrination are you speaking of as imparted? Is there no such thing as good versus bad? Of course we seek to indoctrinate what leads to good conscience and behavior.

In cases where parents betray the trust of their children by misleading them into shoplifting, the children would be counted as victims instead of gullible because it's proper for children to trust and obey their parents. The parents were at fault.

Isn't faith synonymous with trust? Check the dictionary, please. I did. Did you say in effect that you "develop gullibility toward merchants based on the integrity of their (good) track record?" That would be the case if faith is synonymous with gullibility. According to your speech, are you well pleased with your children because they are "gullible" (faithful) to you?

Even if one would insist on counting faith in God as gullibility, then what should we do with the scripture,

"Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise (1 Corinthians 3 :18)."

Why is foolishness encouraged here? Isn't it because what man says is wise or foolish is diametrically opposed to what God says is wise or foolish?

Take care,

Earl

[Erexsaur]

[Replying to post 80 by marco]

Hello Marco,

This post is to answer your post #80.

I am surprised you need to ask this. Let us take the threat In Matthew25: 41 which darkened my childhood:

“Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:�

The comparable Islamic threat is that Allah burns the unbeliever for ever, constantly renewing the scorched flesh to cause more pain.

I ask you the question because I wanted to make sure that I would address the right issue that terrified you. Now I'm sure.

Would you like to unknowingly walk on a deadly path and have no one to warn you? Shouldn't we be warned of the danger of spending our lives on the wrong side of God?

The scripture you quoted speaks of God's punishment for the unfaithful that ignored, violated, and abused all of God's promises and His miraculous, precious provisions for regeneration, all of which were meant to deliver from the sin curse. Isn't it true that sovereignty has its mode for punishment for those that refuse to submit, especially when the refusal of one could corrupt a whole operation as well as all involved? Why for example must parents sometime whip their children they love? Didn't scripture tell us that God has no pleasure in the death of the wicked and that He gives ample warning? Didn't He ask the wicked, "Why die (Ezekiel 18:31)?"

Why is hell forever? It's because God and the souls He create live forever. The soul that refuses His presence and goodness and fails to repent to be forgiven on this side of life ends up forever in the rebellious state on the other side and thus separated according to his (the individual's) unrepentant earthly desire to avoid God. With separation from God impossible due to God's omnipresence, all good that God represents is separated from the rebellious individual by the fire. God hates to cast into hell as much as a judge would hate to put his own son away for life for the son's crime. What would you think of the judge if he spared the son only because it's his son?

But what's the need for crippling fear of the punishment when a way of escape is offered? Scripture instructs never to be terrified of God! Such terror is counterproductive and thus blots out the view of God's precious grace and mercy, thus driving the individual into the exact thing he fears. Is that the bitter water that spoiled the sweet water to you? Neither should a student of the Bible be taught of God as if He should be terrified of God. What does St. John 3:16 tells us? God is merciful and calls us unto reconciliation. How would you feel if a person that you would love to bless is terrified of you and avoids you because of a wrong impression of you?

Those that you read of that God punished forever are those that carried out deeds that rebelliously and foolishly crossed the line against God's wise commandments, grace, and provisions. As for those that claimed that they did "wonderful works (Matthew 7:22)," they only did lots and lots of good looking religious stuff while failing to be led of God in addressing the deep-seated real needs for providing relief from the crushing shackles of sin.

That is a benign if personal view of things. "There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth," or

Revelation 21:8 "But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death."

I accept that this sounds like stupidity, but you are saying that God wrote it. Or do we select the bits of the Bible that don't make us blush?

Please note the words, "cowardly" and "faithless," the consequences of having been consumed by unnecessary fear that insults God by making Him appear as a terrorist instead of the God of peace He is.

Such individuals were too cowardly to face up to the truth of their wrongs to turn away from them to accept the precious forgiveness, grace, mercy, and regeneration made possible by the debt paid in full on our behalf on the cross. Do you have problems with being informed of bad consequences of failure to listen to needed instructions and warnings? What do you think of a rebellious individual that goes unpunished for his sins for the trouble he makes to continue to snowball? Do you remember Genesis 6:5? No corrupting sin will be allowed in the place God has reserved for the just.

Did God call him Adam? Did he have a surname? Did he live in a garden rather than in a cave or a house? Was Eve created witless? Did God really play hide and seek with them to the extent we are told that God asked why they were hiding. If taken literally the story is a gross embarrassment; if we squeeze a figurative meaning from it, we can at least remove some nonsense. There is more sense in Greek mythology which at least gives us explanations for the flowers, hyacinth and narcissus.

Adam and Eve were only given instructions what and what not to do and a choice whether or not to submit. The needed detail given us was that they took the wrong choice. The embarrassment you spoke of came because of the bad choice.

Why is rebellion and disobedience prevalent around us? Don't we all in some way suffer from one another's rebellion and wrong? How do we know the cure without knowing how the problem originated? What better hope of relief do you think we have from the mess other than what's given in the Bible? Do we hope only to live this present life with its heartaches with no hope of a better life ahead?

If God appears foolish, what should we do with the following scripture I also gave to Brunumb?:

"Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise (1 Corinthians 3:18)."

Why the advice to become a fool? Isn't it because what man says is wise and foolish diametrically opposes what God says is wise and foolish?

Before I go:

Is God really a bad person to be disliked? Who then may we thank for the precious life and breath that we have? Why has He spared us until now if hateful? Would you mind if I ask if you please look through Psalm 103? An attitude of praise toward God is miraculously uplifting and brings healing versus the torment of dislike and resentment.

Earl

[brunumb]

[Replying to post 81 by Erexsaur]

The Bible sternly warns that its truth must be rightly divided. It is written:

It doesn't matter what the Bible warns. It is the equivalent of telling someone to wear garlic to ward off vampires. The Bible may claim to be the word of God but it can't be used to validate itself. There is no evidence that any of the miraculous events it describes were real. There is evidence that many of them decidedly could not have happened. The OT prophets were not mediums predicting the future. That aside, alleged prophecies were contrived by others to appear fulfilled. Biblical prophecy was debunked long ago and only resides in the minds of the thoroughly indoctrinated. Human morality evolved with societies and is far superior to the disgusting morality demonstrated by God in the Bible. You don't need God or the Bible to understand empathy for your fellow human beings. As far as I am concerned, religion started as a means of explaining our existence and an attempt to gain control over nature. It has long been usurped by manipulative people to gain control of others. The curse that is religion has been a blight on humanity for a long time. But, enlightenment has begun.

[brunumb]

[Replying to post 82 by Erexsaur]

I was taught the Bible by my mother during my early years and I Thank her much for doing so.

In a world of close to 8 billion people, the majority not Christian, you must consider yourself incredibly lucky to have been born to a mother who had the right religion to pass on to you thus making it unnecessary for you to reason it out for yourself.

[marco]

Would you like to unknowingly walk on a deadly path and have no one to warn you? Shouldn't we be warned of the danger of spending our lives on the wrong side of God?

There is a difference between warning about danger and offering a threat.

Isn't it true that sovereignty has its mode for punishment for those that refuse to submit, especially when the refusal of one could corrupt a whole operation as well as all involved? Why for example must parents sometime whip their children they love?

I should not be surprised that you compare Yahweh to a despot, meting out punishment to his subjects. Bad parents whip their children.

Why is hell forever? It's because ……

You don't know the answer to this but like me you can guess. It is surely presumptuous for a human to read the mind of God.

What does St. John 3:16 tells us? God is merciful and calls us …..

Yes, he's no wiser than any poster here. His guesses might be good - or they might not.

As for those that claimed that they did "wonderful works (Matthew 7:22)," they only did lots and lots of good looking religious stuff while failing to be led of God in addressing the deep-seated real needs for providing relief from the crushing shackles of sin.

You are looking at the wrong reference point in your paraphrase of Matthew. Those who do good works (not casting out devils) are given credit, for as long as they did it unto one of the least brethren, they did it for God.

Such individuals were too cowardly to face up to the truth of their wrongs to turn away from them to accept the precious forgiveness, grace, mercy, and regeneration made possible by the debt paid in full on our behalf on the cross. Do you have problems with being informed of bad consequences of failure to listen to needed instructions and warnings? What do you think of a rebellious individual that goes unpunished for his sins for the trouble he makes to continue to snowball? Do you remember Genesis 6:5? No corrupting sin will be allowed in the place God has reserved for the just.

Far be it from me to say your reading of Scripture is rather negative. You seem to have missed all the verses that offer grace for good rather than punishment for transgression. Bllasphemy against the Holy Spirit (for some reason) is the only unforgiveable sin. The God you paint has the most brutal aspects of the one in the OT, the one Christ tried to paint over and call, instead, merciful Father.

Anyway, we're dealing with the Holy Spirit and we seem to have left him in the swing park. But perhaps we can claim relevance by suggesting that these ideas about God's thinking are Spiritual revelation. Who knows?

If God appears foolish, what should we do with the following scripture I also gave to Brunumb?:

"Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise (1 Corinthians 3:18)."

Paul sometimes speaks sensibly but not always.

Is God really a bad person to be disliked?

The God created by nomadic men is not a likeable being. But then neither is Macbeth nor Iago.

[Erexsaur]

[Replying to brunumb]

Hello Brunumb,

This post answers posts #84 and #85.

In response to my statement, “The Bible sternly warns that its truth must be rightly divided.�. You said,

It doesn't matter what the Bible warns. It is the equivalent of telling someone to wear garlic to ward off vampires. The Bible may claim to be the word of God but it can't be used to validate itself. There is no evidence that any of the miraculous events it describes were real. There is evidence that many of them decidedly could not have happened. The OT prophets were not mediums predicting the future. That aside, alleged prophecies were contrived by others to appear fulfilled. Biblical prophecy was debunked long ago and only resides in the minds of the thoroughly indoctrinated.

Does it matter that we are communicating with each other made possible by the fact that we were created? It’s impossible for our fearfully and wonderfully made bodies to be products of evolutionary chance apart from intelligence (God) that the Bible speaks of that spoke us into existence! How’s this for reasoning? The fact that we are here with dignity and purpose for which we are held responsible thus validates the word God gave us to govern us. Reality is not determined by what we believe, but rewards us according to the path we take based on what we believe whether good or bad.

There are too many witnesses including myself and too much evidence around us that contradict the thought that Biblical truth is unreal. So do archaeologists and even real events. Old and New Testament prophecies especially those of Israel are continually fulfilled before our eyes.

Those that made the Bible and the precious gospel available to us did so at great cost for our sake.

Human morality evolved with societies and is far superior to the disgusting morality demonstrated by God in the Bible. You don't need God or the Bible to understand empathy for your fellow human beings.

Did morality came to us apart from God with no need for Moses? Is the precious wisdom including that expressed in the book of Proverbs found in the Bible disgusting and myth based? If yes, how do you know? As for living life as if able to prosper without God, I too went about with a similar mindset too often only to learn differently the hard way.

Disbelief in the reality of God is not the product of advances in scientific knowledge, but of waywardness inherent in every single one of us that tend to victimize us to susceptibility to false influences such as indoctrination of science made into pseudoscience by censoring out Moses (per Charles Lyell's vision). We must not allow ourselves to be lulled from the necessity to deal with this waywardness that affects how Mr. Reality grades us.

As far as I am concerned, religion started as a means of explaining our existence and an attempt to gain control over nature. It has long been usurped by manipulative people to gain control of others. The curse that is religion has been a blight on humanity for a long time. But, enlightenment has begun.

But has godless man a clean slate from attempts to usurp sovereign control? What inspires him?

We are surrounded by much material that supposedly contains the history of religion. But all is not correct. Is all religion bad? Some such sources only smear to deceive. Every good thing including religion is marred by the misuse of some. Determination of which should be followed as correct is dependent on the condition of the heart.

What “enlightenment� are you speaking of that uplifted you? There are lots of claims of such but don’t we tend to hear from groups that blame their opponents for the exact wrongs they are doing themselves? By what standard do we use to judge which to follow?

In a world of close to 8 billion people, the majority not Christian, you must consider yourself incredibly lucky to have been born to a mother who had the right religion to pass on to you thus making it unnecessary for you to reason it out for yourself.

You are correct that Biblical gospel followers are a minority compared with the world population. As with the law of gravity, the right and wrong choice is not determined by any democratic process based on a majority vote. We live by compliance with laws of nature that governs morality as the law of gravity governs our surroundings. Where did these laws originate? Biblical truth strongly abhors failure to reason. Is there any difference between the two of us in our use of the word, “reason?�


Earl

[Erexsaur]

[Replying to post 86 by marco]

Hello Marco,

This post answers your post#86.

In response to my question, “Would you like to unknowingly walk on a deadly path and have no one to warn you? Shouldn't we be warned of the danger of spending our lives on the wrong side of God?�, you said,

There is a difference between warning about danger and offering a threat.

But whether a Biblical passage appears as a warning or a threat, it informs of danger of which action must be taken. Aren’t you confident in the prescription given for the needed action?


You said,

I should not be surprised that you compare Yahweh to a despot, meting out punishment to his subjects. Bad parents whip their children.

You spoke of God as Yahweh. Are you Jewish?

I did not compare God with a despot. A despot punishes out of selfish spite and sovereignty punishes to protect the integrity of the operation it’s over from dangers of insubordination. There’s a right and wrong way to whip children. The wrong way is out of spite and the right way is for vital correction.


In response to my statement, "Why is hell forever? It's because ……", you said,

You don't know the answer to this but like me you can guess. It is surely presumptuous for a human to read the mind of God.

But isn’t it possible to use logic based on what’s already known to give an explanation?

As for knowing the mind of God, God reveals His thoughts concerning His will to the person with a pure heart that seeks His will by reading His word and praying. Please remember the scripture that promises that the Holy Ghost (God) will lead into all truth.


In response to my question, “What does St. John 3:16 tells us? God is merciful and calls us …..,� you said,

Yes, he's no wiser than any poster here. His guesses might be good - or they might not.

Is that all you have to say about St. John’s informing us of your and my precious hope? The promised hope is only seen as a guess that means nothing to you? It certainly does to me! He spoke what the spirit revealed to him and thus to us. Do you remember what Jesus said to Peter, “Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven (Matthew 16:17).�

Distrust of precious Biblical truth has proven itself countless times through the ages to render the distrusting individual helpless despite vital available hope and drives him into trusting falsehoods.

The books of the Bible including St. John were carefully chosen from many manuscripts to be canonized for the Bible we presently have.


In response to my statement, “As for those that claimed that they did "wonderful works (Matthew 7:22)," they only did lots and lots of good looking religious stuff while failing to be led of God in addressing the deep-seated real needs for providing relief from the crushing shackles of sin.� you said,

You are looking at the wrong reference point in your paraphrase of Matthew. Those who do good works (not casting out devils) are given credit, for as long as they did it unto one of the least brethren, they did it for God.

But my statements were only about those that lost out with God. There’s always the subtle danger of one’s doing more harm than good while thinking he is only doing good. Of course those that did good were blessed.

Far be it from me to say your reading of Scripture is rather negative. You seem to have missed all the verses that offer grace for good rather than punishment for transgression. Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit (for some reason) is the only unforgivable sin. The God you paint has the most brutal aspects of the one in the OT, the one Christ tried to paint over and call, instead, merciful Father.

Anyway, we're dealing with the Holy Spirit and we seem to have left him in the swing park. But perhaps we can claim relevance by suggesting that these ideas about God's thinking are Spiritual revelation. Who knows?

The holy spirit is the spirit of God. As I therefore speak of God, so do I the holy spirit. I try to cover as much as I can about the holy spirit.

I say again that my negative speaking was only of those that lost out with God and that those that did good were blessed.

Is God of the Old Testament brutal? Are we mortal men that’s limited in knowledge able to judge all-wise, all-knowing God that knows infinitely more than we do as brutal?

An erroneous view of God’s holy and pure righteous character of peace is the equivalent of substituting a number other than 3.14 for pi when working an equation that includes pi. It wont work!

The erroneous view tends to drive an individual into tormenting fear that shuts down his view of God’s grace and mercy and causes him (the person) to do regrettable things that he thinks is right but is not. I learned this the hard way.

But counting present blessings with praise and thanksgiving leads in the opposite direction. I found 102 matches for the words, “praise� and “Lord� together. A wrongful impression of God compares with praise as brutal hunger compares with a delightful meal. Such a meal is found in Psalms 111.

It’s written:

“Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus (God) accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost (1 Corinthians 12; 3).� (The “Holy Ghost� phrase that we are discussing popped up again here.)

An impure heart cannot see God. An impure spirit is constantly at war with the Holy Ghost.



In response to my statement, "Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise (1 Corinthians 3:18)," you said,

Paul sometimes speaks sensibly but not always.

Please be rest assured that Paul sensibly spoke that which is necessary for admonishment!

The God created by nomadic men is not a likeable being. But then neither is Macbeth nor Iago.

Of course gods created by man are not likable. But God of the Bible was not created by man. He created.

Earl

[brunumb]

[Replying to post 87 by Erexsaur]

Does it matter that we are communicating with each other made possible by the fact that we were created?

Assumes facts not in evidence.
The rest of your post offers nothing credible or compelling as an argument for the validity of the Bible.