Believing in God is a free will choice

[rikuoamero]

What exactly does the title mean? I'm on another website right now, and in a debate, a Christian said

Believing in God or Jesus is completely voluntary. (for those who are curious, the topic of conversation there is "Why are you convinced God is real?")

To which I want to ask...what does that mean? Is it possible to choose to believe in things, even if all the evidence points in that direction? Is it possible to see Andy point a gun at Bob, see the bullet leave the gun, see the wound, the blood loss, see Bob stop breathing and moving, see Bob being buried/cremated...and yet choose to believe that Andy didn't shoot and kill Bob, as in make a choice that that didn't happen in your mind?

Does the phrase mean that belief is ultimately divorced from evidence?

[William]

[Replying to post 19 by Tcg]

Choose for one week to believe that God is nothing but a fictional being and that Bible is the most flawed book ever composed by humankind.

If one has already chosen to believe that GOD is not fictional and that the bible is not flawed, how can one choose to not believe that, 'for a week'? It is my understanding that belief has to be genuine or it is not belief. It is pretense.

[Bust Nak]

You could demonstrate that fact. Choose for one week to believe that God is nothing but a fictional being and that Bible is the most flawed book ever composed by humankind.

Sorry, I don’t want to do thing that I think is not reasonable. It is against my free will to choose to do stupid thing and reject truth.

Here are few simple solutions: choose to believe that it is reasonable to believe God is fictional, choose to believe that is what you really wanted to do by your free will, or choose to believe that it's great to do stupid thing and reject truth. You can choose what you believe after all, right?

If one has already chosen to believe that GOD is not fictional and that the bible is not flawed, how can one choose to not believe that, 'for a week'?

You tell me, no one but theists have ever suggested choosing to believe or not believe is a thing.

It is my understanding that belief has to be genuine or it is not belief. It is pretense.

Choose to believe that belief doesn't have to be genuine, choose to believe pretense is good enough.

[ttruscott]

You tell me, no one but theists have ever suggested choosing to believe or not believe is a thing.

But in ordinary terms you do this all the time ... New info comes your way and you scrutinize it. If it is important you talk it over with your friends and compare it to things you already know. You might not have a eureka moment but after a time you decide what you believe about this new info, whether it fits your paradigm or not and how it fits if it does.

Only materialists contend that theists are saying anything different from ordinary experience.

[Tcg]

You could demonstrate that fact. Choose for one week to believe that God is nothing but a fictional being and that Bible is the most flawed book ever composed by humankind.

Sorry, I don’t want to do thing that I think is not reasonable. It is against my free will to choose to do stupid thing and reject truth.

Which is exactly the reason I can't believe in God. It is against my rationality to choose to do stupid thing and reject truth.

[William]

This is God setting right what we (in Adam), of our own choice (in his choice), made wrong.

This is something which does not begin with the Adam but with the GOD.

We are the GOD. The creation of the stage (universe-general/earth-specific) and the costumes/outfits are part of that process of setting rightful something which we set *wrongly, before the necessity of creating the stage became apparent.

The GOD of the bible is *incorrectly portrayed (as a GOD/One true GOD) and requires setting correctly. This is done by the individual through their relative free will choice. The way to achieve this is not to ignore it through various means, predominantly by mocking/belittling or condemning/demonizing it because of its perceived faults, but by understanding and accepting it as a process which is natural enough and in that, naturally humans will have to first get it wrong before they can then work on getting it right/be incorrect before being correct.

[Tcg]

[Replying to post 19 by Tcg]

Choose for one week to believe that God is nothing but a fictional being and that Bible is the most flawed book ever composed by humankind.

If one has already chosen to believe that GOD is not fictional and that the bible is not flawed, how can one choose to not believe that, 'for a week'?

By a free will choice of course. At least that is what is being claimed by some here. Of course once you put that claim to the test, it crumbles.

[William]

[Replying to post 26 by Tcg]

By a free will choice of course. At least that is what is being claimed by some here. Of course once you put that claim to the test, it crumbles.

Well how would you measure it? Someone could say 'yeah sure' and a week later revert to the belief that they had before.

Essentially wouldn't that be an example of free will choosing a belief?

[Bust Nak]

But in ordinary terms you do this all the time ... New info comes your way and you scrutinize it. If it is important you talk it over with your friends and compare it to things you already know. You might not have a eureka moment...

Lets see, shall we? So far so good...

but after a time you decide what you believe about this new info, whether it fits your paradigm or not and how it fits if it does.

That has never happened in my life, not once. What you said here is total alien to me. All of my beliefs were forced on to me with zero control.

Only materialists contend that theists are saying anything different from ordinary experience.

You say that so prove it, choose to believe this: you can't choose to believe in or disbelieve in something.

[Bust Nak]

Well how would you measure it? Someone could say 'yeah sure' and a week later revert to the belief that they had before.

Essentially wouldn't that be an example of free will choosing a belief?

Then pick something more permanent, blaspheme the holy spirit in writing, maybe get it tattooed during that week to show that you have indeed chosen to believe God is fake.

[William]

[Replying to post 29 by Bust Nak]

Then pick something more permanent, blaspheme the holy spirit in writing, maybe get it tattooed during that week to show that you have indeed chosen to believe God is fake.

But isn't the point that beliefs are changeable whereas knowledge is more permanent or less easily not discarded?

As to the meat of your suggestion, I have no idea how one would go about blaspheming the HG/HS. *shrugs*. and as to the Abrahamic idea of GOD, I already think [he] is more fiction than factual.

Now if you were to suggest that I simply say I think 'GOD doesn't exist' I can't do that because I don't know that to be the case and think that it isn't.

In that regard 'GOD' is 'The First Source' of all that is, and this thinking is based in logic, as far as I am concerned, although I need not go into all the many details as to why I think it is logical - more logical than 'no First Source'.