Matthew invents another prophecy fulfillment.

[polonius]

“The Massacre of the Innocents is the biblical account of infanticide by Herod the Great, the Roman-appointed King of the Jews. According to the Gospel of Matthew,[1] Herod ordered the execution of all young male children in the vicinity of Bethlehem, so as to avoid the loss of his throne to a newborn King of the Jews whose birth had been announced to him by the Magi. In typical Matthean style, it is understood as the fulfillment of an Old Testament prophecy:[2]

Then was fulfilled that which was spoken through Jeremiah the prophet, saying, "A voice is heard in Ramah, mourning and great weeping, Rachel weeping for her children and refusing to be comforted, because her children are no more.[3]
The number of infants killed is not stated�

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_ ... istoricity

The number of inhabitants of Bethlehem at the time would have been about 300 people with the number of 2 years and younger would have been 6 or 7.

http://www.biblearchaeology.org/post/20 ... px#Article

NB Actually, Rachael was crying for the northern Israelites taken into the Babylonian Captivity about 600 years before the slaughter of the innocent. But Matthew created a number of prophecy fulfillments.

The dates, numbers of deportations, and numbers of deportees given in the biblical accounts vary.[2] These deportations are dated to 597 BCE for the first, with others dated at 587/586 BCE, and 582/581 BCE respectively

[brianbbs67]

[Replying to polonius.advice]

do you know of any that the Messiah would be a Nazarite?

I always have believed that was what was meant(but who knows as the source is not available). Just as the birth of Samson was for told by an angel(messenger) and he was to be Nazereine unto God. Not one hair ever cut.

[polonius]

[Replying to polonius.advice]

do you know of any that the Messiah would be a Nazarite?

I always have believed that was what was meant(but who knows as the source is not available). Just as the birth of Samson was for told by an angel(messenger) and he was to be Nazereine unto God. Not one hair ever cut.

RESPONSE:

The Sampson story was written 500 years after he was supposed to have lived. Is there any reason to believe that this writing is historical rather than fictional???
Much as is the Hebrews in Egypt and the Exodus.


https://www.britannica.com/topic/Book-of-Judges
Book of Judges, an Old Testament book that, along with Deuteronomy, Joshua, I and II Samuel, and I and II Kings, belongs to a specific historical tradition (Deuteronomic history) that was first committed to writing about 550 BC, during the Babylonian Exile. The judges to whom the title refers were charismatic leaders who delivered Israel from a succession of foreign dominations after their conquest of Canaan, the Promised Land.

http://usccb.org/bible/scripture.cfm?bk=Judges&ch=
The Hebrew word translated “Judges� in the English title of the book refers not to specialized judicial officers or magistrates but to leaders in general. According to the biblical narrative these judges led Israel from the end of the conquest of Canaan until the beginning of the monarchy. The period of the Judges, therefore, extended from the death of Joshua (Jos 24:29–31; cf. Jgs 1:1) until the installation of Saul as Israel’s first king by the prophet Samuel, who was also the last judge (see 1 Sm 7:15–17).

[dio9]

[Replying to post 1 by polonius.advice]

The theme of prophecy fulfilled runs throughout Matthew's Gospel.
The flight to and return from Egypt was also prophesied : That he will be called a Nazarene.

"19 After Herod died, an angel of the Lord suddenly appeared in a dream to Joseph in Egypt, 20 saying, “Get up! Take the child and His mother and go to the land of Israel, because those who sought the child’s life are dead.� 21 So he got up, took the child and His mother, and entered the land of Israel. 22 But when he heard that Archelaus[k] was ruling over Judea in place of his father Herod, he was afraid to go there. And being warned in a dream, he withdrew to the region of Galilee. 23 Then he went and settled in a town called Nazareth to fulfill what was spoken through the prophets, that He will be called a Nazarene."

RESPONSE: Isn't that only Matthew's version that Luke doesn't support. Nor do Mark or John. "Then he went and settled in a town called Nazareth. Actually, wasn't the holy family already supposed to have been settled there before they went to pay their taxes.?

Do you know how to tell fact from fiction in a writing? And how many years after the fact was this written? And how would the writer know the story 80 years after the event?

1 Yes it is only in Matthew's version.
2. Yes only in Luke though.
3 Not really , that's what makes the New Testament so interesting.
4. Matthew and Luke used Mark's Gospel as their source, I suppose what agrees with Mark's account to be most reliable.

[polonius]

[Replying to post 1 by polonius.advice]

The theme of prophecy fulfilled runs throughout Matthew's Gospel.
The flight to and return from Egypt was also prophesied : That he will be called a Nazarene.

"19 After Herod died, an angel of the Lord suddenly appeared in a dream to Joseph in Egypt, 20 saying, “Get up! Take the child and His mother and go to the land of Israel, because those who sought the child’s life are dead.� 21 So he got up, took the child and His mother, and entered the land of Israel. 22 But when he heard that Archelaus[k] was ruling over Judea in place of his father Herod, he was afraid to go there. And being warned in a dream, he withdrew to the region of Galilee. 23 Then he went and settled in a town called Nazareth to fulfill what was spoken through the prophets, that He will be called a Nazarene."

RESPONSE: Isn't that only Matthew's version that Luke doesn't support. Nor do Mark or John. "Then he went and settled in a town called Nazareth. Actually, wasn't the holy family already supposed to have been settled there before they went to pay their taxes.?

Do you know how to tell fact from fiction in a writing? And how many years after the fact was this written? And how would the writer know the story 80 years after the event?

1 Yes it is only in Matthew's version.
2. Yes only in Luke though.
3 Not really , that's what makes the New Testament so interesting.
4. Matthew and Luke used Mark's Gospel as their source, I suppose what agrees with Mark's account to be most reliable.

RESPONSE: Nothing agrees with Mark's nativity narrative because he doesn't have one. Apparently the early strata of Matthew (as used by the Ebionites, the first Jewish Christians), didn't either.

[dio9]

[Replying to polonius.advice]

Yes , so what does that tell you? The Gospels don't depend on historic accuracy.

[polonius]

[Replying to polonius.advice]

Yes , so what does that tell you? The Gospels don't depend on historic accuracy.

RESPONSE: So they are a nice story but they lack historical accuracy. Is that what you are saying?.

The story of George Washington admitting to chopping down the cherry is a nice story too, it's just not historical since it never happened.

[brianbbs67]

[Replying to post 1 by polonius.advice]

The theme of prophecy fulfilled runs throughout Matthew's Gospel.
The flight to and return from Egypt was also prophesied : That he will be called a Nazarene.

"19 After Herod died, an angel of the Lord suddenly appeared in a dream to Joseph in Egypt, 20 saying, “Get up! Take the child and His mother and go to the land of Israel, because those who sought the child’s life are dead.� 21 So he got up, took the child and His mother, and entered the land of Israel. 22 But when he heard that Archelaus[k] was ruling over Judea in place of his father Herod, he was afraid to go there. And being warned in a dream, he withdrew to the region of Galilee. 23 Then he went and settled in a town called Nazareth to fulfill what was spoken through the prophets, that He will be called a Nazarene."

RESPONSE: Isn't that only Matthew's version that Luke doesn't support. Nor do Mark or John. "Then he went and settled in a town called Nazareth. Actually, wasn't the holy family already supposed to have been settled there before they went to pay their taxes.?

Do you know how to tell fact from fiction in a writing? And how many years after the fact was this written? And how would the writer know the story 80 years after the event?

1 Yes it is only in Matthew's version.
2. Yes only in Luke though.
3 Not really , that's what makes the New Testament so interesting.
4. Matthew and Luke used Mark's Gospel as their source, I suppose what agrees with Mark's account to be most reliable.

RESPONSE: Nothing agrees with Mark's nativity narrative because he doesn't have one. Apparently the early strata of Matthew (as used by the Ebionites, the first Jewish Christians), didn't either.

True, nor does he have a resurrection story in the most reliable and earliest manuscripts. !6:9 to the end was added about a hundred years later by a copiest. I believe the consensus was that it was too beautiful to delete.

Poison drinkers and snake handlers take heed...

[polonius]

[Replying to post 1 by polonius.advice]

The theme of prophecy fulfilled runs throughout Matthew's Gospel.
The flight to and return from Egypt was also prophesied : That he will be called a Nazarene.

"19 After Herod died, an angel of the Lord suddenly appeared in a dream to Joseph in Egypt, 20 saying, “Get up! Take the child and His mother and go to the land of Israel, because those who sought the child’s life are dead.� 21 So he got up, took the child and His mother, and entered the land of Israel. 22 But when he heard that Archelaus[k] was ruling over Judea in place of his father Herod, he was afraid to go there. And being warned in a dream, he withdrew to the region of Galilee. 23 Then he went and settled in a town called Nazareth to fulfill what was spoken through the prophets, that He will be called a Nazarene."

RESPONSE: Isn't that only Matthew's version that Luke doesn't support. Nor do Mark or John. "Then he went and settled in a town called Nazareth. Actually, wasn't the holy family already supposed to have been settled there before they went to pay their taxes.?

Do you know how to tell fact from fiction in a writing? And how many years after the fact was this written? And how would the writer know the story 80 years after the event?

1 Yes it is only in Matthew's version.
2. Yes only in Luke though.
3 Not really , that's what makes the New Testament so interesting.
4. Matthew and Luke used Mark's Gospel as their source, I suppose what agrees with Mark's account to be most reliable.

RESPONSE: Nothing agrees with Mark's nativity narrative because he doesn't have one. Apparently the early strata of Matthew (as used by the Ebionites, the first Jewish Christians), didn't either.

True, nor does he have a resurrection story in the most reliable and earliest manuscripts. !6:9 to the end was added about a hundred years later by a copiest. I believe the consensus was that it was too beautiful to delete.

Poison drinkers and snake handlers take heed...

RESPONSE:

Mark 16:17

17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: by using my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up snakes in their hands,[e] and if they drink any deadly thing, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover.�

Wait a minute! Isn't all scripture supposed to be "God breathed"?

Do fundamentalist do these things?

[marco]

“The Massacre of the Innocents is the biblical account of infanticide by Herod the Great, the Roman-appointed King of the Jews. According to the Gospel of Matthew,[1] Herod ordered the execution of all young male children in the vicinity of Bethlehem, so as to avoid the loss of his throne to a newborn King of the Jews

It is interesting to find arguments against the many good points you make, Polonius, but on this occasion I think Matthew was just being Matthew, making things up to comply with some prophecy. It is a wonderful story which inspired the artist Rubens to paint two pictures; so Matthew should be given some credit for inspiring a later work.


Of course were it true and God had designed Christ's mission, God would have been responsible for this terrible massacre.