Who is the Holy Spirit?

[marco]

The Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit inspires folk. The Muses had that role too.

Is the Spirit a reality outside of our reality, one who can - like Proteus - appear in different forms as the notion takes him? Divinities in Classical mythology had their functions: they oversaw the arts, or healing or war. What would be the point of the Holy Spirit? If God wished to inspire fisher folk he could do it instantaneously by a moment's thought; instead we have a curious waiting period, then comes the Spirit into a room and literally inspires. Are we not just a little suspicious that this is a borrowing from an existing mythology, a dramatic explanation of Christ's propaganda?


Is there sense in the Holy Spirit being some divinity? Or is he a personification of inspiration? How do we view him?

[William]

[Replying to post 119 by JoeyKnothead]

Show us you ain't just a lyin', slanderous individual Hell-bent on lyin' and slanderin'!

Minor point JK...but shouldn't that be;

Hell-bent on a-lyin' and a-slanderin'?

[JoeyKnothead]

[Replying to post 119 by JoeyKnothead]

Show us you ain't just a lyin', slanderous individual Hell-bent on lyin' and slanderin'!

Minor point JK...but shouldn't that be;

Hell-bent on a-lyin' and a-slanderin'?

I don't 'preciate you a-correctin' me in public, but yeah.

[JoeyKnothead]

Edit: I posted posted.

[Bust Nak]

Show us why we shouldn't conside you a "sinner" , a liar, when it becomes apparent you can't show you speak truth!

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[TLIG]

The Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit inspires folk. The Muses had that role too.

Is the Spirit a reality outside of our reality, one who can - like Proteus - appear in different forms as the notion takes him? Divinities in Classical mythology had their functions: they oversaw the arts, or healing or war. What would be the point of the Holy Spirit? If God wished to inspire fisher folk he could do it instantaneously by a moment's thought; instead we have a curious waiting period, then comes the Spirit into a room and literally inspires. Are we not just a little suspicious that this is a borrowing from an existing mythology, a dramatic explanation of Christ's propaganda?


Is there sense in the Holy Spirit being some divinity? Or is he a personification of inspiration? How do we view him?

There are seven Holy Spirits of God.

[Erexsaur]

[Replying to JoeyKnothead]

Hello Joeyknothead,

You said,

I reject the notion folks have 'em them a "sinful nature", unless and until you can show you know the the thoughts of a god you can't show exists.

Show you speak truth!

Show us you ain't just a lyin', slanderous individual Hell-bent on lyin' and slanderin'!

Show us why we shouldn't consider you a "sinner" , a liar, when it becomes apparent you can't show you speak truth!

Is your rejection of knowledge of the reality of sin and of God based on knowledge or denial? For what reason if the latter? Denial is the way of alcoholics.

You are right to consider me a sinner because I am a terrible, terrible sinner and I admit it! But God proved Himself real to me by His saving me by His grace.

Aren’t you aware of the acute danger of rejecting knowledge? Slave masters keep knowledge from their slaves so that they may never know their right to be free. You are not your own slave master, are you? Lack of awareness of God’s available grace, mercy, and help in times of need tends to accelerate the suicide rate.

There’s a vast difference between the sharing of knowledge and the sharing of mere opinion. There’s simply too much around us that points to the existence of God for anyone to come close to any conclusion that he doesn’t. Didn’t this “unproven� God make available a written document called the Bible (rejected by many) that shows His thoughts? Why is there a people called the Jews that gave us this Bible? How do I know to treat you the way I would like for you to treat me?

For what other reason is there so much wrong and suffering around us than the fact that we all are of a fallen nature called “sinful� as the Bible informs us? Did aggressive lawyers, judges, and “powerful� dictators create the universe, the beauty around us, and our ability to enjoy it? Where did we get the standard for right and wrong? Who has the power to create and orchestrate the complexity that’s beyond man’s ability?

Heroes are such because they stood face to face to seemingly insurmountable danger and overcame it. So did the thief on the cross beside Jesus that boldly ask Jesus to remember him in paradise as he stared the death he deserved squarely in the face supernaturally knowing death to be defeated by the sinless man (Jesus) dying beside him. So are we likewise able to face our worst enemy within ourselves called sin and ask Jesus to wash us from it. Aren’t we glad that God lives with this unique offer? I am!

Why deny precious hope by denying God?


Earl

[Erexsaur]

[Replying to post 117 by brunumb]

Hello Brunumb,

I'm sorry, but none of your post answered anything at all.

OK. Here’s more.

"There is nothing around us that points to our being created. Everything points to us being one of the many products of millions of years of evolution. Creationism is the result of a process of teaching people to accept beliefs uncritically. The mind becomes closed to the evidence pointing to the truth of evolution because it is in conflict with indoctrinated religious beliefs. I have worth as an individual and I don't need to have been the product of magic by some invisible being to give me that worth."

But what about the DOI that points to higher authority that created us who is violated if your and my rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness are violated? Isn’t that at least one of many bits of evidence? How are we protected by it if God is untrue? That alone is one reason I would never want to forsake the Creation worldview! The fact that our sun, moon, and earth are precisely sized, distanced, and positioned for solar and lunar eclipses by which scientists gather valuable data appears more to me as a favor from intelligence than a chance occurrence. God’s proof of Himself to me has me spoiled 100% “rotten!�

Your statement that nothing points to God’s creating us only reflects invested trust in evolutionary dogma instead of vital trust in God. You say that trust is not important? As for evolutionary dogma versus Biblical truth, it’s impossible to trust one without despising the other. Vital Biblical indoctrination thus appears detrimental only to those that oppose it. A ball player would badly insult his team if he wears any part of the opposing team’s uniform. As for which “team� to support, please consider I Corinthians 3:19.

One very significant item of contrast between the creationist and evolutionary worldviews is that the creation worldview mandates love and respect for neighbor and willingness to forgive (We are all imperfect) and the evolutionary worldview necessarily vilifies all that oppose evolution- even scientists. Why? Could it be because of something to hide? Hmmm! If evolution is true, the Bible-based laws protecting us (we are our own worst enemies) would have no foundation.

I assure you that this “villain� called a creationist that’s speaking to you is on your side when it comes to satisfactory fulfillment of life’s purposes. We are at odds because our methods for carrying out the purposes are diametrically opposed because of our worldviews.

You say that everything points to our being the products of mega-year evolution that supposedly excludes the need for God? Our universe is governed by laws. Because of the impossibility of a personal witness to the eons of evolution that supposedly took place in the unseen past, what scientific laws do we depend on by which experimentation consistently verifies the possibility of biological changes toward incremental biological complexity necessary for evolution? What scientific laws support amoeba-to-man-evolution to assure us it was true?

Google tells me there are 8.7 million species on earth give or take 1.3 million. Why have we not also found a large number of transitional fossils? Have we found at least one that was not later disproved? Darwin himself even testified that if no transitional forms are found, his theory is in big trouble. Tell me please what saved his theory to assure us evolution is a fact.

Again, that is not a meaningful response. It is not up to me to provide you with the compelling evidence for belief. As I said, if you had it you would have provided it. The problem is that the indoctrinated find that anything consistent with their belief is compelling to them. Looked at without the distortion of Bible-glasses, it is not. It is also not a matter of trust. The skillful manipulator is a master at engendering trust. Compelling empirical evidence does not demand or rely on trust.

I didn’t ask you to provide me with compelling evidence for belief. I only ask that you tell me what you count as sufficient to compel you. Read on.

Genuine uncorrupted lifegiving truth that sets us free is the thing that we must all seek and believe, not any kind of favored trumped-up man-made dogma. Was it not written that true worshippers of God do so in spirit (The topic of this leg) and truth (St. John 4:20)? We must never allow anyone to lure us from genuine truth by making it appear as trumped up dogma though it’s not. Evidence of truth is a huge forest all around us of which we must never allow anyone to use its trees to block our view of it.

If compelling evidence does not demand or rely on trust, then how is it able to change the heart of the convinced? Is it by robotic control? Robots know nothing about intangible trust.

Knowledge is dispensed to us as electrical power is to our houses. Use of it is up to us. But do we always want the knowledge given? The subtle manipulator engenders trust in the wrong thing with the use of false evidence. Would it not be he that would say that trust is unnecessary because of his dependence on deception? Let’s not believe his lie that the wise counsel of the Bible that exposes him is distortion of truth that shouldn’t be trusted!

Aren’t we all are in need of someone to inform us of yet unknown necessary truth? Your and my trust are in someone or the other whether good or evil whether intended or not. Isn’t our decision as to who or who not to trust based on the use of sound knowledge and wisdom in judgment that’s given us? Or do we already know 100% of everything? Growth in sound Biblical knowledge and understanding amounts to understanding of a technology within itself!

My post to Joeyknothead contains more.

Have I told you anything now? I’m satisfied that I shared much with pleasure!

Earl

[brunumb]

[Replying to post 126 by Erexsaur]

Have I told you anything now?

Nothing of value. Your two posts are so full of fallacies that I have neither the inclination nor the time to waste pointing out what you will simply dismiss. You are essentially arguing from incredulity. The Bible is just religious and political propaganda. Gods were a human concept conceived to explain gaps in our knowledge of the world we inhabited. As humans have gained knowledge over the centuries, gods have progressively had less and less to explain. The concept of sin is anathema to me and anyone who holds a worldview of humans as fallen sinners is just sadly deluded. Such ideas cannot be accepted through reasoning, only through relentless indoctrination and reinforcement.

[Erexsaur]

[Replying to post 127 by brunumb]



OK. Thank you for your comments. I say again that I am well satisfied that I shared much with you that will always be with you.

Take care,
Earl

[Goat]

[Replying to JoeyKnothead]

Hello Joeyknothead,

You said,

I reject the notion folks have 'em them a "sinful nature", unless and until you can show you know the the thoughts of a god you can't show exists.

Show you speak truth!

Show us you ain't just a lyin', slanderous individual Hell-bent on lyin' and slanderin'!

Show us why we shouldn't consider you a "sinner" , a liar, when it becomes apparent you can't show you speak truth!

Is your rejection of knowledge of the reality of sin and of God based on knowledge or denial? For what reason if the latter? Denial is the way of alcoholics.

Can you show that sin is reality and God is reality?? How do you know that??? Can you show that beside religious dogma, speculation or unsupported claims? How do you know what sin is, and can you define sin in other that religious dogma terms?

You are right to consider me a sinner because I am a terrible, terrible sinner and I admit it! But God proved Himself real to me by His saving me by His grace.

That is the message that the Christian religion in specific has pushed. Now, you claim that 'God has proved himself to you'. Can you show that sin is something more than a man made conceptual concept, and that your judgement that 'God proved himself real by saving you' is the truth, rather than a subjective judgement you can not show is true to someone else? Can you show others without referring to religious dogma, and unsupported claims?

Aren’t you aware of the acute danger of rejecting knowledge? Slave masters keep knowledge from their slaves so that they may never know their right to be free. You are not your own slave master, are you? Lack of awareness of God’s available grace, mercy, and help in times of need tends to accelerate the suicide rate.

This is the logical fallacy known as 'appeal to consequences'. You have to show that what you claim is knowledge is actually true. Can you show that without referring to religious dogma and unsupported claims. How do you know that?? Can you show it's more than personal opinion , guided by social conditioning?

There’s a vast difference between the sharing of knowledge and the sharing of mere opinion. There’s simply too much around us that points to the existence of God for anyone to come close to any conclusion that he doesn’t. Didn’t this “unproven� God make available a written document called the Bible (rejected by many) that shows His thoughts? Why is there a people called the Jews that gave us this Bible? How do I know to treat you the way I would like for you to treat me?

Can you show that what you are sharing is actually knowledge?I am sure you believe it is knowledge, but can you bring forth tangible evidence that can be tested ?

For what other reason is there so much wrong and suffering around us than the fact that we all are of a fallen nature called “sinful� as the Bible informs us? Did aggressive lawyers, judges, and “powerful� dictators create the universe, the beauty around us, and our ability to enjoy it? Where did we get the standard for right and wrong? Who has the power to create and orchestrate the complexity that’s beyond man’s ability?

Heroes are such because they stood face to face to seemingly insurmountable danger and overcame it. So did the thief on the cross beside Jesus that boldly ask Jesus to remember him in paradise as he stared the death he deserved squarely in the face supernaturally knowing death to be defeated by the sinless man (Jesus) dying beside him. So are we likewise able to face our worst enemy within ourselves called sin and ask Jesus to wash us from it. Aren’t we glad that God lives with this unique offer? I am!

Why deny precious hope by denying God?


Earl

Hope for what?? and before someone can 'deny' God', one must actually show that God exists. Can you show that God exists with something more than using religious scripture/dogma, personal belief and unsupported claims?