Why did Jesus not cure blindness in general?

[marco]

Christopher Hitchens raised the interesting question:

"If Jesus could heal a blind person, then why not heal blindness?"


Ditto with deafness.


Why did Jesus not bring universal cures when he did concern himself with a cure here and there, demonstrating he had the ability?

And why did he not simply cure all leprosy? Then today we might be listing among his achievements the eradication of that disease?

[EarthScienceguy]

[Replying to Tcg]

That's like giving a cure for cooties. There is no real malady and no need for a cure.

Sin is not a problem. I really do not believe that you are thinking through what you are saying.

Every person in our prison system is there because they sinned. Every murder that has ever been committed is because of sin. Every rape that has ever been committed is because of sin. Every child that has ever been abused is because of sin.

Changing the heart of a man is the greatest gift Jesus, God incarnate, could have given to man. It is the greatest miracle that Jesus ever performed. Changing the very nature of a man towards sin.

And no not everyone that says they are a Christian are a Christian.

1 John 2:4

Whoever says “I know him� but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him,

So the priest that committed all those acts. Not Christians.

Jesus said in Matthew 22:14

Then the king told the servants, ‘Tie him hand and foot and throw him outside into the outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’ For many are called, but few are chosen.� Then the Pharisees went out and plotted to trap Jesus in His words.…

These Priest as of right now are not chosen for salvation.

But there have been Billions of others that have. That you will never here about because they will never be in the news. They simply live their quiet life serving the King of King and Lord of Lords.

[ttruscott]

The point I was making was that no matter how much others might see a flaw in Christ, those who believe deeply in him, with strong foundations to their belief, will invariably find a good defence.

Does it need to be repeated that those who reject Him deeply, with strong foundations to their belief, will invariably find a good defence for their rejection? Iow, there is NO truth that cannot be perverted or rejected in favour of a lie as Rom 1 claims that even seeing the proof of HIS divinity and power, some will still repress, suppress, that truth from their minds and worship idols instead.

[Tcg]

Iow, there is NO truth that cannot be perverted or rejected in favour of a lie as Rom 1 claims that even seeing the proof of HIS divinity and power, some will still repress, suppress, that truth from their minds and worship idols instead.

The problem with your "theory" is of course the fact that those who reject the existence of mythological beings have no reason to "worship" anything. It is only in the minds of those who worship mythological beings that others also worship things. The fact is that we don't.

[ttruscott]

Christ promised to set people against each other, and did. Many would say the world is worse for his coming.

I don't think we can boast about Christ's achievements. Many other humans did good without the attendant atrocities.

His achievements certainly did not bring much good to the materialistic world which hated Him. If physically healing them in the secular world is your only definition of good then you are out of luck in understanding Him.

The good He did was to prove that even Godly good will not change the behaviour of some people. Rom 1:20+ tells us the that every person has no excuse for not worshipping YHWH even though they have clearly seen HIS power and divinity because they repressed the truth of HIS divinity and worshipped idols instead, loving sin more than the truth. Jesus life and death carried the same message for the same reason: see what GOD has done on behalf of sinners but notice who will never turn to Him no matter what. Bringing His sinful elect to redemption and the holiness of leaving the reprobate to GOD’s judgement is His achievement, not ending the earned suffering of the reprobate.

[EarthScienceguy]

At least when he cured the blind there was tangible evidence - then - of some achievement. The world is as sinful now (or even more so) as when Christ went around on foot. People before and after him have been good or bad, as they chose. Nothing he did has changed that. In trying to scrape for something big that Jesus did we end up in the realm of fairy tales, like Jack getting magical beans. It is a complete fiction that the man cured sin in any sense.

Sure He did. That is what Christianity is based on and that is how Christianity changed the culture of this world. Are you saying that Christianity did not change the culture of this world.

Dr. Rodney Stark, a professor at Baylor, who is a specialist on the sociology of religion. Last week I mentioned a remarkable book he wrote that I feel did not get the attention it deserves. It’s called America's Blessings: How Religion Benefits Everyone, Including Atheists(2012).

Stark observes that "America is an unusually religious nation. Nearly all Americans say they believe in God, about 80 percent believe in heaven, about 70 percent believe in hell, and half pray at least once a day (32 percent pray more than once)."

He notes that religion benefits everyone, even the non-religious, who feel the residual effect.

Those who attend church more often tend to donate much more often. For example, he writes, "…religious people dominate the ranks of blood donors, to whom even some angry humanists owe their lives."

Stark provides a bullet list of many benefits:

*“Religious Americans are far more likely to contribute even to secular charities, to volunteer their times to socially beneficial programs, and to be active in civic affairs.

*“Religious Americans enjoy superior mental health---they are happier, less neurotic, and far less likely to commit suicide.

*“Religious Americans also enjoy superior physical health, having an average life expectancy more than seven years longer than that of the irreligious. A very substantial difference remains even after the effects of ‘clean living’ are removed.


*“Religious people are more apt to marry and less likely to divorce, and they express higher degrees of satisfaction with their spouses. They also are more likely to have children.

*“Religious husbands are substantially less likely to abuse their wives or children.

*“Religious American couples enjoy their sex lives more and are far less likely to have extramarital affairs.

*“Religious students perform better on standardized achievement tests.

*“Religious Americans are far less likely to have dropped out of school, which is especially true for African Americans and Hispanics.


*“Religious Americans are more successful, obtaining better jobs and far less subject to being on unemployment or welfare; this is true not only for whites but for African Americans.

*“Although often portrayed as ignorant philistines, religious Americans are more likely to consume and sustain ‘high culture.’�

Max Jukes, [an] atheist, lived a godless life. He married an ungodly [woman], and from this union there were 310 who died as paupers, 150 were criminals, 7 were murderers, 100 were drunkards, and more than half of the women were prostitutes. His 540 descendants cost the State one and a quarter million dollars [before inflation].

Then there is a record of a great man of God, Jonathan Edwards. He lived at the same time as Max Jukes, but he married a godly [woman]. An investigation was made of 1,394 known descendants of Jonathan Edwards, of which 13 became college presidents, 65 college professors, 3 United States Senators, 30 judges, 100 lawyers, 60 physicians, 75 army and navy officers, 100 preachers and missionaries, 60 authors of prominence, one Vice-President of the United States, 80 public officials in other capacities, 295 college graduates, among whom were governors of states and ministers to foreign countries. Jonathan Edwards' descendants did not cost the state a penny (quoted in America is Too Young to Die by Leonard Ravenhill, Minneapolis, Minnesota: Bethany Fellowship, 1979, p. 112).

Yeah, I keep adding to my list.

So I do not know if you have children but if you do you might want to think of Christianity.

Jesus Christ, God incarnate, changed the world. And for 20 centuries the message of Christianity has been the same. Jesus Christ is the answer to the mans sin problem.

You are a benefactor of the God goodness. The belief that all men are created equal is a Christian belief. Not known before or at least not practiced before Christianity.

Women's suffrage product of the west and Christianity. The Women's suffrage movement began in Christian countries.

Christianity changes men because they have a cure for sin. Doesn't mean they stop sinning all together it means that they can chose not to sin. When they could not choose before not to sin.

Before men come to Christ they do not even know what sin is. They do not even care if they follow the law (Biblical law) or not. They simply do what is right in their own eyes and this is sin.

Paul says it like this. Romans 7:7

What then shall we say? That the law is sin? By no means! Yet if it had not been for the law, I would not have known sin. For I would not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.�

It is not until men agree with God that they are a sinner and have broken God's law that the cure to sin is applied.

1 John 1:9

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

It is you who are making unsubstantiated claims, not I. I was discussing Caesar last night. Not so long ago I watched a documentary on Marco Polo, and another on Columbus. I spent some years at university discussing Plato; I was required at school to write essays on Napoleon and on Alexander the Great. We have an endless list of people from the past whom we still discuss. Jesus is no different. He earned his acclaim because Christianity was adopted as a political stratagem by Constantine. He is known worldwide because Spanish conquistadors and English adventurers made forced conversions. The branch of Christianity most associated with Jesus is the Roman Catholic Church. Many who support Jesus condemn that institution, but make use of its ubiquity to claim dominion for Jesus.

Et to Brutae (little Caesar joke)

I know lots of people who have never heard the men that those in academia have to discuss. But they know the name of Christ. I know and have read about countless more that would not say their was changed by believing in any of the men you just mentioned. But it was Changed by Jesus Christ. Countless Billions of men have been changed because of belief in Jesus Christ, can you say the same for any of the men you mentioned. None of those mentioned even lived during a time when there were a billion of souls on this planet.

So to say that Jesus Christ has not changed the world is not understanding the History of the world and the geopolitical events of today

Right Now Christianity is flourishing in China with the message that Jesus Christ died for your sins and is the answer to the sin problem of your life. Christianity is spreading in the middle east with the same message that Jesus is the answer to the sin problem of your life. Christianity flourished in the Old Soviet Union using the same message. That is the message of Christianity and it always have been.

The events that you mentioned far from helping Christianity actually hurt the message. And that is what lead to the reformation.

Protestants killed Catholics; Catholics burned heretics; both burned witches; Islam easily overthrew the Christian churches where Christ had been; division is the mark of Christianity today; Christ promised to set people against each other, and did.

Yes this was the reason for the reformation. This is the reason why people today do not see the Catholic Church as part of the Christian church.

I will try to give you the short version of Church history of this time. The Roman Catholic Church, it was the Roman Catholic Church because it was originally the Church of Rome. That took political control over the rest of the Churches in the West. And added many aspects to Christianity that were not part of Scripture. One of the aspects they added was the politicization of the Church.

It was this politicization that took more than a few centuries for the Protestant Church to rid itself of. This is the reason for the division between the Protestant and Catholic Churches.

Many would say the world is worse for his coming.

Really, refer to the list above. Tough to prove this one.

A fair view, however, is that he changed nothing at all - there are good and bad today as there always have been.

They reason why you have what you believe as good is because of Christianity and Christ.

women's suffrage
End to Slavery
All men created equal
Even that all men have rights.

All came from Christianity.

It might be noted that, in giving Jews the title of God-killers, he was partly responsible for the Holocaust. I don't think we can boast about Christ's achievements. Many other humans did good without the attendant atrocities.

Yes that was a belief of some in the Church at during parts of the History of the Church. There were others that taught that they were still God's chosen race of men and that God is not done with Jewish prophecy concerning the Jews.

God uses sinful men to fulfill his will. We are not robots we are led. And everything will work together for good in accordance with the prophecy and plan of God.

Now atheism that has some real problems associated with it.

From the American Journal of Psychiatry

Suicide rates are lower in religious countries than in secular ones (1, 2)

The main finding of this study was that religiously affiliated subjects were less likely to have a history of suicide attempts, the best predictor of future suicide or attempts (31). Moreover, greater moral objections to suicide that may represent traditional religious beliefs mediated the protective effect of religious affiliation against suicidal behavior in a clinical sample of depressed patients. Individuals with a religious affiliation also reported less suicidal ideation at the time of evaluation, despite comparable severity of depression, number of adverse life events, and severity of hopelessness. Of note, suicidal ideation, a risk factor for suicidal acts, has been found to be inversely related to religion (5, 8–10). Therefore, religion may provide a positive force that counteracts suicidal ideation in the face of depression, hopelessness, and stressful events.

Suicidal behavior is related to aggressive and impulsive traits (30), and anger predicts future suicidal behavior in adolescent boys (32). Religiosity has been reported to be associated with lower hostility, less anger, and less aggressiveness (33, 34), which is consistent with our findings. Of note, aggression and moral objections to suicide were independently associated with suicidal behavior in this sample. Therefore, religious affiliation may affect suicidal behavior both by lowering aggression levels and independently through moral objections to suicide. Of interest is the fact that Boomsma et al. (35) found that in a twin sample, receiving a religious upbringing reduced the influence of genetic factors on disinhibition.

Well this helps explain Mao in China, Stalin in the old Soviet Union, and other atheistic dictators.

I hope you are not feeling depressed or angry with me informing you of all of this. Christianity could help you if you are.

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to post 33 by ttruscott]

Rom 1:20+ tells us the that every person has no excuse for not worshipping YHWH even though they have clearly seen HIS power and divinity because they repressed the truth of HIS divinity and worshipped idols instead, loving sin more than the truth. Jesus life and death carried the same message for the same reason: see what GOD has done on behalf of sinners but notice who will never turn to Him no matter what. Bringing His sinful elect to redemption and the holiness of leaving the reprobate to GOD’s judgement is His achievement, not ending the earned suffering of the reprobate.

Here's the thing ted. Romans 1 is not authoritative on reality and people. It's a letter, written by one guy to a bunch of other people. It's a letter containing the thoughts of one guy. So what that Romans says this?

[1213]

....Atheists don't hate the God of the Bible: they believe he has been created by ordinary people. To them he is a fiction, like Hamlet, and who hates Hamlet? If they are wrong, then God will indicate their error. If they are right, we can all still be neighbours.

The difference seems to be in that, no one tries to lie about Hamlet, but many seem to lie about the Bible. And to me, if one twists the truth against other, it can be seen as hateful action.

[brunumb]

[Replying to post 34 by EarthScienceguy]

Christianity changes men because they have a cure for sin. Doesn't mean they stop sinning all together it means that they can chose not to sin. When they could not choose before not to sin.

If Christianity is a cure for sin but Christians keep on sinning, it is not a cure. The situation is exactly the same for everyone. Saying that people could not choose to not sin before becoming a Christian is a wild assertion with no basis in fact. The problem is that Christians equate any wrong-doing with sin. Sin is actually just an imaginary concept created for the religious mind. I have no problem choosing not to do wrong and I am certainly not a Christian. I would go as far as to say that I am better in that regard than many Christians that I know.

Before men come to Christ they do not even know what sin is. They do not even care if they follow the law (Biblical law) or not. They simply do what is right in their own eyes and this is sin.

Another wild assertion. Biblical law is irrelevant as is any religiously based law. We have laws that govern society without the need for any reference to God. People are required to do right by those laws and that is what really counts. Labeling actions that are contrary to God's whims as sin may help to control those under the thumb of their religion, but otherwise it is completely irrelevant. You don't need God to be good.