Did Jesus Crucify?

[Talmid]

Jesus was not crucified according to some early Christian writings.

The Second Treatise of the Great Seth [190-230 A.D.]

For my death, which they think happened, happened to them in their error and blindness, since they nailed their man unto their death. Their thoughts did not see me, for they were deaf and blind. But in doing these things, they condemn themselves. Yes, they saw me; they punished me. It was another, their father, who drank the gall and the vinegar; it was not I. They struck me with the reed; it was another, Simon, who bore the cross on his shoulder. It was another upon whom they placed the crown of thorns.

Coptic Apocalypse of Peter [200-255 A.D.]

The Savior said to me, "He whom you saw on the tree, glad and laughing, this is the living Jesus. But this one into whose hands and feet they drive the nails is his fleshly part, which is the substitute being put to shame, the one who came into being in his likeness. But look at him and me."

[Wootah]

You can safely ignore gnostic writings. They occurred long after the events and were not written or intended as true accounts. They are more or less fan fiction from that time.

You can learn more here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/greatseth.html

[Jagella]

[Replying to post 1 by Talmid]

Is there a question for debate?

I think there was a real hodgepodge of beliefs in the first century in Israel. The gnostics, who predated Christianity for centuries, came up with beliefs that influenced Christianity. So it's hard to tell who was copying whom. So the historicity of the crucifixion is very questionable. It's a zany story that is very unlikely to be historical.

[Tcg]

[Replying to post 2 by Wootah]

You can safely ignore the writings know as the New Testament. They occurred long after the events and were not written or intended as true accounts. They are more or less fan fiction from that time.

You can learn more here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian ... ristianity

[bjs]

[Replying to Talmid]

A variety of apocalyptic writings about Jesus were written in the third century, presenting a wide range of different and contradictory stories about Jesus.

First century Christian writings, generally viewed as more reliable, universally agreed that Jesus was crucified.

As a side note, most people would call the writings you cited “gnostic Christian writings� as opposed to just “Christian writings.� This is because the overwhelming majority of Christian writers at the time did not agree with these writing, or outright condemned them as false.

[Talmid]

According to Basilides [Died in 140 A.D.]:

"He [Jesus] appeared on earth as a man and performed miracles. Thus he himself did not suffer. Rather, a certain Simon of Cyrene was compelled to carry his cross for him. It was he who was ignorantly and erroneously crucified, being transfigured by him, so that he might be thought to be Jesus. Moreover, Jesus assumed the form of Simon, and stood by laughing at them."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of ... rucifixion

Regarding Gospels in NT:

All four gospels are anonymous and none were written by eyewitnesses.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel#Au ... nd_sources

The earliest existing manuscripts of Gospels dated from 125 to 250 A.D. [Around 100 years after Jesus].

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historica ... anuscripts

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 6 by Talmid]

Given what we know about Jesus's character do you think He would stand around laughing after swapping Simon in his place? It seems evil to me and so unlikely to be Jesus.

[Talmid]

[Replying to post 7 by Wootah]

Double-personality of Jesus in NT:

Jesus racism towards Canaanite & Greek Woman;

Matthew 15:22-26
A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, “Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is demon-possessed and suffering terribly.� Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, “Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us.�
He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.� The woman came and knelt before him. “Lord, help me!� she said. He replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.�

Mark 7:26-27
The woman was a Greek, born in Syrian Phoenicia. She begged Jesus to drive the demon out of her daughter. “First let the children eat all they want,� he told her, “for it is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.�

Jesus told his believers not to call anyone fool;

Matthew 5:22
But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’ is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.

Yet he called his critics fool;

Matthew 23:17-19
You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred? You also say, ‘If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gift on the altar is bound by that oath.’ You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred?

Luke 11:40
You foolish people! Did not the one who made the outside make the inside also?

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 8 by Talmid]

So you think Jesus is evil?

[Talmid]

[Replying to post 9 by Wootah]

I just quoted contradictory statements of Gospels which you believed as God’s word.