For the Love of Christ

[StuartJ]

Does Jesus love YOU ...?

The writers of the Gospels have the Jesus character come, not to bring peace but a sword, and encourage folks to sell their clothes and buy swords, and turn families against each other.

Very, very little is made of the love of Jesus by the writers of his propaganda.

Two gospels don't even mention it at all.

One has him extend his love to a single man only.

Another has him love only his immediate cadre.

(I'll leave you to find them.)

Hardly what you would expect of the Jesus promoted by the Christianities of today ....

It's what you WOULD expect from a would-be king trying to reclaim the throne, and summon armies of angels ... just like he's going to do when he comes back.

The supposed love and the redemption theology come AFTER the Gospels.

They look, to me, like the political spin of the followers of a failed messiah.

[justme2]

What--?

Please explain in layman's terms.

Thanks in advance

[StuartJ]

[Replying to post 2 by justme2]

Would take too long.

Ask your priest or pastor to run through it with you.

(I figure if you're an Atheist you won't need to ask to have it explained to you.)

[kcplusdc@yahoo.com]

So they have shown God inside the imagination? Send me a link.
Why is everyone always so worried about where God is?
Have I found Jesus?
Well is he lost? I can help look.

[Clownboat]

So they have shown God inside the imagination?

Not all the gods can be true, therefore we know most and quite possibly all of the god concepts are a product of the imagination.

Send me a link.

No need. See above.

Why is everyone always so worried about where God is?

I submit that only theists are worried about where the gods are. Non theists I presume worry about religion and how it can make some people behave, but not the god concepts themselves.

[PinSeeker]

Does Jesus love YOU ...?

Yeppers.

The writers of the Gospels have the Jesus character come, not to bring peace but a sword, and encourage folks to sell their clothes and buy swords, and turn families against each other.

Oh, my. Such wooden "understanding" boggles the mind.

A sword cuts, or separates. Yes, in Matthew 10, Jesus does say, "Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword..." "Sword" is a metaphor for the inevitable "cutting," or separation, between those who believe in Christ and those who do not, even within a family (a reality which I am acutely aware of in my own extended family, by the way). We love each other, and we get along, but in that way, I am against my father and mother and they against me.

In Luke 22:36, yes, Jesus does say, "whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one..." There's far more than first meets the glass eye, here, too. This is a metaphorical statement commanding the disciples to be armed spiritually to fight spiritual foes.

Two verses later (v.38), the disciples misunderstand Jesus's command and produce literal swords, but Jesus's response in that same verse is, "It is enough," which is a rebuke; He is essentially saying, "Enough of this talk about swords." And just a few minutes later (in verses 49-51), Jesus again prohibits the use of a literal sword, saying, "No more of this," and heals the wound caused by the sword.

However, in Luke 22, there is also a literal sense of the sword; Jesus is not prohibiting the use of it altogether: The very fact that he permits His disciples to have swords suggests this. Self-defense and protection are valid reasons for possessing weapons from time to time; this is not part of His rebuke mentioned previously. Again, concerning verses 49-51, Jesus allows (because He's God) the incident to happen a) because it is a valid use of the sword (self-defense), although He Himself is not the wielder of it, and b) because He then heals the person who was struck by the sword, thereby displaying (yet again) His divinity, and c) He prohibits his disciples from blocking His arrest and suffering, and from seeking to advance the kingdom of God by force, which is the lesson to all of us. Several have misunderstood or at least lost sight of this through the past 2000-plus years, obviously, which is unfortunate, but doesn't render His teaching invalid by any means, then or now.

It's what you WOULD expect from a would-be king trying to reclaim the throne, and summon armies of angels ... just like he's going to do when he comes back.

Well, no. Jesus said His kingdom was not of this world. So He was not trying to undermine any worldly authority. He even acknowledged that those who do possess authority only have it because of God. This is the "now-and-not-yet-ness" of the Gospel. God's Kingdom came into this world in His Person, so it is here, but not in its fullness as yet. He always was, is, and always will be the King of kings, and the Lord of lords. Instead of a "would-be" king, He is an always was, is, and forever shall be King. One day, that will be in it's fullness, the Kingdom of heaven and this world will be one.

The supposed love and the redemption theology come AFTER the Gospels.

Actually no, it starts in Genesis 3 (verse 15, to be exact), continues all though the Old Testament (especially Leviticus, which has been called "The ABCs of Redemption), is fully fleshed out in the life of Jesus in the Gospels, and is proclaimed throughout the rest of the New Testament and forecast in its fullness by John in Revelation. If there's one word that can sum up the Bible, it's "redemption."

They look, to me, like the political spin of the followers of a failed messiah.

Sure. That's what it looks like to the world. That's exactly the kind of separation Jesus is talking about. And it pits us against each other in the spiritual sense. But I'm not going to take up the sword against you... except for the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God (Ephesians 6), and is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword (Hebrews 4, Revelation 1, 2, and 19). Yes, Jesus will come, and He will make war against the spiritual forces of the world and Satan with the sword of his mouth. From His mouth comes a sharp sword. It's the Word. Jesus.

Grace and peace to you, Stuart.

[StuartJ]

[Replying to post 6 by PinSeeker]

You didn't discuss the lack of love from the Jesus character in the Gospels ...?

You would think that if "Yes Jesus loves me, the Bible tells me so" was the intent, the early propaganda would make much of it.

[Clownboat]

"Sword" is a metaphor for the inevitable "cutting," or separation, between those who believe in Christ and those who do not, even within a family (a reality which I am acutely aware of in my own extended family, by the way). We love each other, and we get along, but in that way, I am against my father and mother and they against me.

This is an example of another harm that Christianity brings to this world.

My mother, a very devout Christian, also envisions some gap between her and I now that I'm no longer a believer. She is 'against' me, but I feel zero feelings of being 'against' her.

It is a shame, as I do not experience this gap. It has been created due to her Christianity. This Us vs Them mentality that she has been conditioned to accept.

How many family gaps do religions create I wonder?

[PinSeeker]

You didn't discuss the lack of love from the Jesus character in the Gospels ...?

Well, I just dismissed it for the rubbish that it was, really. Not to hurt your feelings or anything, but... Well okay: surely you would agree, Stuart, that love is not just warm and fuzzy feelings/actions/words, all the time. Wouldn't you? I mean, disapproval, or chastisement, or even harsh rebuke can be love, too, can it not? Ever hear of "tough love?"

[PinSeeker]

My mother, a very devout Christian, also envisions some gap between her and I now that I'm no longer a believer. She is 'against' me, but I feel zero feelings of being 'against' her.

You love your mother, I have no doubt. But... and not to offend you in any way... maybe you're not as in touch with yourself as you may think.

It is a shame, as I do not experience this gap.

Ah but you do. As a wise comedian (too bad he wasn't a wise politician) once said, "Denial ain't just a river in Egypt!" Too, it isn't just about you, is it? She experiences it, too. I mean, it doesn't, like, ruin your relationship with your mom, but it's there, like the elephant in the room.

It has been created due to her Christianity.

Well, right. So you're contradicting yourself. It's actually created by your indifference to and unbelief in Christ. You love your mom. She loves you. Neither of you would do the first thing that might harm one hair on the other's head in any way; even the idea of that possibility is repulsive. But that division is there. It's the same with me and my mother. Except the other way around, of course.

This Us vs Them mentality that she has been conditioned to accept.

It's not an "us vs. them" thing. It's not between your mother and you. It's a you vs. Jesus thing. And that's what causes the underlying division between you and your mother. Like I said, I can say the exact same thing about me and my mother (and father, and most of the rest of my family). But we still love them, of course.