Evolution RIP

Creationism, Evolution, and other science issues

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EarthScienceguy
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Evolution RIP

Post #1

Post by EarthScienceguy »

From Zumdahl Chemistry Sixth edition

Gibbs free energy equation in Chemistry indicates whether a chemical reaction will occur spontaneously or not. It is derived out of the second law of thermodynamics and takes the form.

dG = dH - TdS

dG = the change in Gibbs free energy
dH = the change in enthalpy the flow of energy reaction.
T = Temperature
dS = Change in entropy Sfinal state - Sinitial state

For evolution to occur the dS is always going to be negative because the
final state will always have a lower entropy then the initial state.

dH of a dipeptide from amino acids = 5-8 kcal/mole ,(Hutchens, Handbook
of Biochemistry and Molecular Biology.

dh for a macromolecule in a living system = 16.4 cal/gm (Morowitz,
Energy flow in Biology.


Zumdauhl Chemistry sixth edition

When dS is negative and dH is positive the Process is not spontaneous at
any temperature. The reverse process is spontaneous at all temperatures.

The implications are that evolution could not have happen now or in the past. genes could not have been added to the cytoplasm of the cell along with producing any gene's in the first.

Production of information or complexity by any chemical process using a polymer of amino acids is impossible according to the second law of thermodynamics. If any proteins were formed by chance they would immediately break apart.

Evolution Cannot Happen.



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Re: Evolution RIP

Post #2

Post by DrNoGods »

[Replying to post 1 by EarthScienceguy]
Evolution Cannot Happen.
A good major league baseball pitcher can throw a baseball from the pitchers mound to home plate, 60.5 feet away, at 100 miles per hour, which is 146.7 feet per second.

The elapsed time from when the baseball leaves the pitchers hand to when it crosses home plate is therefore 60.5 / 146.7 = 0.412 seconds = 412 ms.

The loss of one phosphate group from ATP produces ADP (adenosine diphosphate). This reaction is exothermic and produces 30 kJ/mol. This supplies the energy to move muscles in the human body.

The distance from Los Angeles to Washington, DC is 2,669 miles.

Therefore a human being cannot hit a fast ball.

That analysis is just as valid as the gibberish you wrote, and proves that no human being has ever hit a 100 MPH fast ball on a standard dimension baseball diamond. QED.
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Re: Evolution RIP

Post #3

Post by Divine Insight »

EarthScienceguy wrote: Evolution Cannot Happen.
Forum: Science and "Religion".

If you need for evolution to be false in order for your religion to be true, you need to move on a different religion.

You may as well go back to arguing that the earth is at the center of creation.
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Re: Evolution RIP

Post #4

Post by benchwarmer »

EarthScienceguy wrote:
Evolution Cannot Happen.

So what do you call the process of reproduction with mutation that leads to change in biological populations? God magic?

Your assertion is proved false by watching it happen in the lab.

As DI has suggested, you may want to find a religion that doesn't rely on reality not being true.

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Tsrot

Post #5

Post by ATN »

From what I understand the original post would only be true if an individual had to maintain and expand itself by itself, but this is not the case.

First you have to understand that the rules of thermodynamic describe the pattern (or behavior) of energy. The second rule of thermodynamic (short: tsrot)states that you can't transfer or store energy without loss of energy. Tsrot doesn't impact or limit the variation of forms the energy is stored as.

Lifeforms get amino acids from absorbing (eating) other lifeforms and threw chemical reactions. I can't say it starts anywhere, because it is a “circle of life�. But I starts with the producers, the plants, absorb energy threw photosynthesis involving biological waste and radiation from the sun. Tsrot describe the energy loss, the plants aren't able to fully exploit and maintain all the energy provided in this process.

Carnivores get their energy from absorbing (eating) plants, and tsrot again describe the loss in energy transfer from plants to the carnivores. The carnivores later leave biological waste back to the plants, before themselves become biological waste. Either threw being eaten by predators and become their waste or when they die and rot. The predators basically go through the same process with further loss of energy, and always providing the plants with more biological waste. Which the plants use in combination with the sun to add additional energy to the system.

There is enough energy provided to our local system (the Earth) by the sun to provide cells with what it needs to duplicate and spread.

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Re: Evolution RIP

Post #6

Post by Bust Nak »

[Replying to post 1 by EarthScienceguy]

What makes this different from you last attempt in the thread "Does man have a soul?"

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Re: Evolution RIP

Post #7

Post by DrNoGods »

[Replying to post 6 by Bust Nak]
What makes this different from you last attempt in the thread "Does man have a soul?"


Nothing at all. He is still missing the fundamental point that dG - dH - TdS only applies in a closed thermodynamic system. The earth is an open thermodynamic system so this equation does not apply as he is trying to use it, so his conclusion is not correct. But this is the standard mistake all anti-evolutionists make when trying to argue that evolution violates the 2nd law of thermodynamics ... ESG evidently thinks that reproducing it in a new thread will somehow make his mistake go away.
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Re: Evolution RIP

Post #8

Post by EarthScienceguy »

[Replying to post 4 by benchwarmer]

Not possible and does not happen that is what I call it because it can't.

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Re: Evolution RIP

Post #9

Post by EarthScienceguy »

[Replying to post 7 by DrNoGods]

Do you see heat energy in this equation?

Even if we did add heat energy to this equation in which we could. Heat energy from the sun would be positive because heat from the sun would be doing work on the Earth System.

Thanks Thermodynamics folks.

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Re: Tsrot

Post #10

Post by EarthScienceguy »

[Replying to post 5 by ATN]

That is not the problem. The problem is creating new genes for an upward organizational movement of a species.

Creating new genes requires an increase in the complexity of the arrangement of the amino acids. The Gibbs free energy equation indicates that increase in complexity cannot happen spontaneously. And even it did it would move back to the original state spontaneously. Therefore making evolution impossible.

And this is exactly what we see in nature.

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