The Trinity.

[Elijah John]

Is the dogma of the Trinity

a) Revealed Truth?
b) Is it Biblical? Or
c) Is the doctrine of the Trinity a theological solution to the problem of maintaining monotheism in light of early Christian desire to worship Jesus?

As always, please support your answer.

[tigger2]

[Replying to post 26 by JehovahsWitness]

2 Cor. 13:14:


"The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Spirit, be with you all." - ASV.


Does that verse really say the Father, the Son, and the holy spirit are three persons who constitute the one Most High God? Doesn't it say, instead, that the Lord Jesus Christ is one individual, the holy spirit is another individual (whether a person or a thing), and that God is another different individual?


Does it say Jesus is God? Does it say the holy spirit is God? No, it treats God as someone entirely separate from those two! So, either the inspired Bible writer is completely ignoring the person of the Father: "the grace of...Christ [an individual person]...the love of [a composite] God...and the communion of the spirit [an individual person or thing], or, since the Father alone really is the only true God (Jn 17:1, 3; 1 Cor. 8:6), Paul is including the person of the Father in this verse and properly identifying him alone as God (as all his readers at that time well knew).


The actual wording of the "trinitarian" 2 Cor. 13:14, when examined, proves it to be evidence against a trinity concept. (Analyze Luke 9:26 and 1 Tim. 5:21 in this "three mentioned together so they must be equal" manner of trinitarian "evidence.")

[brianbbs67]

I would go further, Tigger2, God is spirit. So, there are really only 2 persons. God and His son Christ.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 32 by brianbbs67]

Are you suggesting the two are equal?




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[polonius]

Right Reason wrote:

Galileo was not condemned for teaching science. Galileo was rebuked for attempting to make theological claims. Something he had no right to do. This actually brings us back to my above post where your response was to bring up Galileo. Contrary to perhaps your beliefs, not every Tom, Dick, and Harry can simply authoritatively state their own theological views regarding Christ and His Church. Please learn your history. At the time, the Pope was actually a friend of Galileo and was always supportive of Galileo’s research – that is until Galileo took it upon himself to start speaking for the Church. Now the Church admits she made mistakes with how Galileo was treated, but she does not apologize for her duty to protect and safeguard Christ’s teachings. The Galileo affair is probably one of the most misunderstood in history. I suggest you learn the facts before you speak.

Lets look at the actual condemnation of Galileo to see what he was actually condemned for.

“We say, pronounce, sentence, and declare that you, the said Galileo, by reason of the matters adduced in trial, and by you confessed as above, have rendered yourself in the judgment of this Holy Office vehemently suspected of heresy, namely, of having believed and held the doctrine—which is false and contrary to the sacred and divine Scriptures—that the Sun is the center of the world and does not move from east to west and that the Earth moves and is not the center of the world; and that an opinion may be held and defended as probably after it has been declared and defined to be contrary to the Holy Scripture; and that consequently you have incurred all the censures and penalties imposed and promulgated in the sacred canons and other constitutions, general and particular, against such delinquents

Galileo spoke for science not for Church teachings. Subsequently, the Church was proven wrong.

[brianbbs67]

[Replying to post 32 by brianbbs67]

Are you suggesting the two are equal?




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I truly don't know. But looking at bible verses, God is the Holy Spirit and Yeshua Christ His son of man. So looking at the evidence I have, they are not equal, but could be co-equal as rulers.

[tam]

I would go further, Tigger2, God is spirit. So, there are really only 2 persons. God and His son Christ.

I apologize, I have not read through the whole thread. Just caught this comment.


Indeed, there are only 2 persons: JAH and His Son.

God is spirit, as you have said... and so is His Son:


Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 2Corinthians 3:17 (see also Rev 22:17)



God is the Most Holy One, whereas His Son is the Holy One (of Israel and of God). His Son is also the Spirit (and so He is the Holy Spirit of God).


That being said, the "holy spirit" that Christ breathed upon His apostles (and again at Pentecost, etc) is not a person; it is instead the breath/blood/seed of JAH. That was the anointing of holy spirit:

As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit--just as it has taught you, remain in him. 1John 2:27


That is the baptism of holy spirit that Christ does:

“After me will come One more powerful than I, the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to stoop down and untie. I baptize you with water, but He will baptize you with the holy spirit.�




But yes, there are only two persons: God (the Father) and His Son (the Christ).


Peace to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy