At the moment you were born-again …
you were only forgiven of the sins you had committed up to that point in time!
“For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness,
and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his OLD sins.
Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call
and election sure, for IF you do these things you will never stumble;
for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting
kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.� (2 Peter 1:9-11, NKJV)
“OLD sins� is also in the KJV, RSV, NLT, AMP
“having forgotten his purification from his FORMER sins.� (2 Peter 1:9, NASB)
“FORMER sins� is also in the ESV
“forgetting that they have been cleansed from their PAST sins.� (2 Peter 1:9, NIV)
“PAST sins� is also in the HCSB
Now for some confirming NT passages …
Paul wrote this to the Corinthian church concerning his words of rebuke
in 1 Corinthians that he had sent to them concerning some particular sin(s).
They really needed to be sorrowful and repent.
“… the pain (from his rebuke) caused you to repent and change your ways.
It was the kind of sorrow God wants His people to have, so you were not
harmed by us in any way. For the kind of sorrow God wants us to experience
leads us away from sin and results in salvation. … worldly sorrow, which lacks
repentance, results in spiritual (eternal) death.� (2 Corinthians 7:8-10, NLT)
“Yes, I am afraid that when I come again, God will humble me in your presence.
And I will be grieved because many of you have not given up your old sins.
You have not repented of your impurity, sexual immorality,
and eagerness for lustful pleasure.� (2 Corinthians 12:21, NLT)
Peter is warning believers about God’s destruction of all ungodly and unholy people:
“Then he used the water to destroy the ancient (ungodly) world … the day of judgment,
when ungodly people will be destroyed. … He is being patient for your sake. He does not
want anyone to be destroyed (perish spiritually), but (he) wants everyone to repent.
… what holy and godly lives you should live … (you) make every effort to be found living
peaceful lives that are pure and blameless in his sight. … I am warning you ahead of time
… Be on guard so that you will not be carried away by the errors …� (2 Peter 3:6-17, NLT)
John gives the condition for the Lord to forgive believers’ present sins:
“But if we confess our sins to him, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins
and to cleanse us from all wickedness (unrighteousness).� (1 John 1:9, NLT)
“This is an extremely important verse … all men need to be repeatedly purified from all
unrighteousness – from all their sins … We must confess our sins and turn from them
… We must also confess them with our actions … (John) is talking here about repentance
… we must hate our sins and turn from them. This is true repentance.�
(The Applied New Testament Commentary; Dr. Thomas Hale)
2 verses later, John reminds believers to ask Jesus to plead our case before the Father:
“My dear children, I am writing this to you so that you will not sin.
But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate who pleads our case before
the Father. He is Jesus Christ, the one who is truly righteous.� (1 John 2:1, NLT)
Believers are responsible for repenting of their sins after they are born-again!
They have been given the Holy Spirit, a totally new nature, and God’s word.
So, they have been enabled to be victorious overcomers over sin, the world,
and the devil. They have no excuse for failing to do this.
Proof: You were only forgiven of your past sins!
Moderator: Moderators
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Divine Insight
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Post #2
I didn't see a question for debate. But I agree that born-again Christians have no excuse to ever sin again.
1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
According to John he who is born of God cannot sin.
Therefore any born-again Christian who is born-again in Christ or in the Holy Spirit is not only free of all sins (because their past sins have been forgiven), but they also can sin no more.
But most Christians violate this and claim that they continue to sin even after having accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior (i.e. having become born-again in Christ)
So any Christian who continues to sin after they have accepted Christ is in violation of 1 John 3:9. Because if they had truly been born-again in Christ they could no longer sin. And they should also proclaim to be sin-free since all their past sins have been forgiven.
But we seldom, if ever, seen any Christians claiming to be sin-free, or claiming that they no longer sin.
Instead they appear to worship the words of Paul who proclaims that all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.
The problem is that Paul's decree would no longer apply to those who have been born-again in Christ because those people have had their past sins forgiven, and they could sin no more. So while Paul's decree may have been valid prior to them becoming born again in Christ, it's no longer valid for them afterward.
No born-again Christian should even sin. They should also proclaim to be free from all sin, because their past sins would no longer count against them.
1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
According to John he who is born of God cannot sin.
Therefore any born-again Christian who is born-again in Christ or in the Holy Spirit is not only free of all sins (because their past sins have been forgiven), but they also can sin no more.
But most Christians violate this and claim that they continue to sin even after having accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior (i.e. having become born-again in Christ)
So any Christian who continues to sin after they have accepted Christ is in violation of 1 John 3:9. Because if they had truly been born-again in Christ they could no longer sin. And they should also proclaim to be sin-free since all their past sins have been forgiven.
But we seldom, if ever, seen any Christians claiming to be sin-free, or claiming that they no longer sin.
Instead they appear to worship the words of Paul who proclaims that all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.
The problem is that Paul's decree would no longer apply to those who have been born-again in Christ because those people have had their past sins forgiven, and they could sin no more. So while Paul's decree may have been valid prior to them becoming born again in Christ, it's no longer valid for them afterward.
No born-again Christian should even sin. They should also proclaim to be free from all sin, because their past sins would no longer count against them.
[center]
Spiritual Growth - A person's continual assessment
of how well they believe they are doing
relative to what they believe a personal God expects of them.
[/center]
Spiritual Growth - A person's continual assessment
of how well they believe they are doing
relative to what they believe a personal God expects of them.
[/center]
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Wootah
- Savant
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Post #3
Moderator Comment
Hi Browner,
Your post needs to be rewritten so that it is less preachy and with a question.
Then we can all discuss it.
Please review the Rules.
______________
Moderator comments do not count as a strike against any posters. They only serve as an acknowledgment that a post report has been received, but has not been judged to warrant a moderator warning against a particular poster. Any challenges or replies to moderator postings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.
Hi Browner,
Your post needs to be rewritten so that it is less preachy and with a question.
Then we can all discuss it.
Please review the Rules.
______________
Moderator comments do not count as a strike against any posters. They only serve as an acknowledgment that a post report has been received, but has not been judged to warrant a moderator warning against a particular poster. Any challenges or replies to moderator postings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.
Member Notes: viewtopic.php?t=33826
"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image
."
Member Notes: viewtopic.php?t=33826
"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image
."
Post #4
Man is not Born of Original Sin
Xuefeng
(Translated by Transn and Edited by Kaer)
Is nature good or evil? This controversial issue which has been debated for thousands of years finally gets answered correctly from Lifechanyuan.
"Good" and "evil" are not the properties of “Nature�, but are “determined by material logic". In other words, when "the material content is achieved through the content of consciousness", there will the distinction between good and evil.
Qiankun Buddha of Lifechanyuan said this:
"There is no right or wrong or good or evil on the level of consciousness. Consciousness only reflects the results achieved by material logic. Right or wrong and good or evil is determined by material logic. Meeting the material logic that creates the totality is right and good. Destroying the material logic that creates totality is wrong and evil. Therefore, from the point of view of pure consciousness, on that level, there is no right or wrong.
However, if consciousness "appears", and uses the content of consciousness to achieve material content, then the consciousness can be right or wrong and good or evil, which is determined by the material logic that achieves the content. For example, the information stored in a computer is binary, whether good or bad. It is does not have a right or wrong, or good or evil nature. The right or wrong and good or evil is the result of the application of the information on a physical level. Likewise, scientific principles can improve the lives of people, but can also manufacture weapons to destruct human life.
Similarly, on the consciousness level of the universe, that is, Ālaya consciousness, there is neither right and wrong nor good and evil. The consciousness of the universe only truthfully records the data of material cycle, data of LIFE’s consciousness, and activities in the universe. The right or wrong and good or evil of the universe is determined by individual consciousness of LIFE. And the individual consciousness that decides the good or evil is determined by the application of the consciousness of LIFE on material logic. And the right or wrong and good or evil that reflects the application of material logic is determined by the totality of the material cycle.�
As a result, both arguments of “Nature is evil� and “Nature is good� are wrong.
Well, what does Lifechanyuan say on the issue of whether we are born into sin or not? We are not born as such. Sin is the result of the incomplete and imperfect social operating mechanisms of human society, and is not innate. The root causes of the suffering of human societies for thousands of years lies not with sin, but with the imperfect operating mechanism of human society. If the operating mechanism is complete and perfect, people will not sin, but if the operating mechanism is not good, people may sin.
Let’s examine whether our conclusion is correct or not.
Qiankun Buddha has given us the following example: Six people live in an apartment with only one toilet, so the use of the toilet becomes a problem which leads to conflicts with unpleasant results. "Sin" thus comes along. If the conflicts due to the unreasonable limitation of the toilet are resolved, say, by building a second toilet, then they will be lessened, and if we built a third toilet, the conflicts would be minimized even more and the so-called "sins" would not arise.
Therefore, the sin caused by toilet use was not innate, but was from the restrictive design structure of the apartment.
If we compare "sin" to flies, we have to ask where flies come from. If we go to a place with a clean and beautiful environment, we see hardly any of them, but if we go to a relatively dirty and messy environment, we will see many flies. This is true! Actions speak louder than words. The fact has proven that flies do not come from nowhere but from unclean environments.
In Chinese history, there were many instances of peasant uprisings, including the revolution of Chinese workers and peasants under the leadership of the Chinese Communist Party. What led to that? Did the peasants and workers naturally want to revolt and rebel? Absolutely not! Uprisings and revolutions are caused by bad social operating mechanisms. If the social operating mechanisms are good, especially if the distribution of the means of production is reasonable, there will not be any rebellions or revolutions.
The corruption in the Singapore government is less than in the Chinese government. Could it be that Chinese officials have innately corrupt hearts? No! There is something wrong with the government’s operating mechanism.
There is anger and there are conflicts between wives and husbands, and sometimes there are the phenomena of affairs outside of marriage, or "bigamy", and so on. Could it be that people are born to be angry and to have conflicts with each other? No! They are the results of the survival mechanism, marriage mechanism, and family mechanism. If there were no marriage, then there would be no family operating mechanism, and these phenomena could have been avoided.
The world's population is now reaching 6.8 billion, right? This enormous population is drastically depleting our natural resources. The pollution of air, water, and all the natural resources on earth is a testament to our overpopulation. Fierce competition and a series of overt and covert conflicts result, upsetting people, both day and night. What are the reasons? The reasons are because there is something wrong with the social operating systems. It is not that people are sinned, not at all.
In short, man is not born sinned. There is the saying of "forcing young girls of good families to prostitute themselves" and "forcing boys to join the rebels". Who forces? It is the social operating mechanism that forces.
As I have said before, the core crisis of mankind is the crisis of the soul. Well then, I am now saying that man is not born from sin. The sin is caused by bad social operating mechanisms. Are they contradictory? Are the Chanyuan Values themselves creating paradoxes? No and no!
Good social operating mechanisms need to be built by people with beautiful souls. Without beautiful souls, good social operating mechanisms can never be built, so the construction of the soul is the first requirement, but beautiful souls are not enough. We must construct a good social operating mechanism with beautiful souls. Otherwise, the beautiful souls will not be sustained for very long. This is more like the love between men and women. At first, everything goes fine, but if they do not build operating mechanisms to reinforce their original intentions, conflicts will soon develop which will either lead to their breaking up, or to their struggling in pain for a lifetime.
All religions, including Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Taoism, Hinduism, and others, have problems on establishing good social operating mechanisms. All the various cultivation groups, including the Indian ones, the Chinese ones, recent spiritual practice groups in the west, and others have ignored the establishment and construction of good social operating mechanisms.
All political parties, especially the Communist Party organizations under the guidance of Marxism, are working hard to build better social operating mechanisms, but they neglect the Greatest Creator and the construction of the human soul. If political party organizations neglect the Greatest Creator and the human soul, they cannot build good social operating mechanisms, despite how hard they might try. If religious organizations ignore the building of good social operating mechanisms, then regardless of what they claim, whether it is the reappearance of Jesus, the reincarnation of Maitreya, Deity Celestial Beings descending to earth, the reappearance of dharmacakra, or threats such as impending catastrophes or “the apocalypse", are useless and unhelpful to the world. If cults conjure up their spirits and deities, describe fortunes and disasters, and escapes from reality, lead befuddled lives as if drunk or in a dream, study sorcery and witchcraft, and play with spells, their members could never become Celestial Beings or Buddha or get away from the six worlds of reincarnation. For them to even reemerge human, an afterlife would be very difficult.
If you sinned in your previous life, then you have been punished.
If your ancestors sinned, they had to bear it, but that has nothing to do with you. A king’s children may not be kings or queens. A thief’s children need not necessarily be thieves.
Man is not born into sin. Whether we are sinned or not depends on whether we revere nature, revere LIFE, revere the Greatest Creator, and whether we take on the Way of the Greatest Creator.
Xuefeng
(Translated by Transn and Edited by Kaer)
Is nature good or evil? This controversial issue which has been debated for thousands of years finally gets answered correctly from Lifechanyuan.
"Good" and "evil" are not the properties of “Nature�, but are “determined by material logic". In other words, when "the material content is achieved through the content of consciousness", there will the distinction between good and evil.
Qiankun Buddha of Lifechanyuan said this:
"There is no right or wrong or good or evil on the level of consciousness. Consciousness only reflects the results achieved by material logic. Right or wrong and good or evil is determined by material logic. Meeting the material logic that creates the totality is right and good. Destroying the material logic that creates totality is wrong and evil. Therefore, from the point of view of pure consciousness, on that level, there is no right or wrong.
However, if consciousness "appears", and uses the content of consciousness to achieve material content, then the consciousness can be right or wrong and good or evil, which is determined by the material logic that achieves the content. For example, the information stored in a computer is binary, whether good or bad. It is does not have a right or wrong, or good or evil nature. The right or wrong and good or evil is the result of the application of the information on a physical level. Likewise, scientific principles can improve the lives of people, but can also manufacture weapons to destruct human life.
Similarly, on the consciousness level of the universe, that is, Ālaya consciousness, there is neither right and wrong nor good and evil. The consciousness of the universe only truthfully records the data of material cycle, data of LIFE’s consciousness, and activities in the universe. The right or wrong and good or evil of the universe is determined by individual consciousness of LIFE. And the individual consciousness that decides the good or evil is determined by the application of the consciousness of LIFE on material logic. And the right or wrong and good or evil that reflects the application of material logic is determined by the totality of the material cycle.�
As a result, both arguments of “Nature is evil� and “Nature is good� are wrong.
Well, what does Lifechanyuan say on the issue of whether we are born into sin or not? We are not born as such. Sin is the result of the incomplete and imperfect social operating mechanisms of human society, and is not innate. The root causes of the suffering of human societies for thousands of years lies not with sin, but with the imperfect operating mechanism of human society. If the operating mechanism is complete and perfect, people will not sin, but if the operating mechanism is not good, people may sin.
Let’s examine whether our conclusion is correct or not.
Qiankun Buddha has given us the following example: Six people live in an apartment with only one toilet, so the use of the toilet becomes a problem which leads to conflicts with unpleasant results. "Sin" thus comes along. If the conflicts due to the unreasonable limitation of the toilet are resolved, say, by building a second toilet, then they will be lessened, and if we built a third toilet, the conflicts would be minimized even more and the so-called "sins" would not arise.
Therefore, the sin caused by toilet use was not innate, but was from the restrictive design structure of the apartment.
If we compare "sin" to flies, we have to ask where flies come from. If we go to a place with a clean and beautiful environment, we see hardly any of them, but if we go to a relatively dirty and messy environment, we will see many flies. This is true! Actions speak louder than words. The fact has proven that flies do not come from nowhere but from unclean environments.
In Chinese history, there were many instances of peasant uprisings, including the revolution of Chinese workers and peasants under the leadership of the Chinese Communist Party. What led to that? Did the peasants and workers naturally want to revolt and rebel? Absolutely not! Uprisings and revolutions are caused by bad social operating mechanisms. If the social operating mechanisms are good, especially if the distribution of the means of production is reasonable, there will not be any rebellions or revolutions.
The corruption in the Singapore government is less than in the Chinese government. Could it be that Chinese officials have innately corrupt hearts? No! There is something wrong with the government’s operating mechanism.
There is anger and there are conflicts between wives and husbands, and sometimes there are the phenomena of affairs outside of marriage, or "bigamy", and so on. Could it be that people are born to be angry and to have conflicts with each other? No! They are the results of the survival mechanism, marriage mechanism, and family mechanism. If there were no marriage, then there would be no family operating mechanism, and these phenomena could have been avoided.
The world's population is now reaching 6.8 billion, right? This enormous population is drastically depleting our natural resources. The pollution of air, water, and all the natural resources on earth is a testament to our overpopulation. Fierce competition and a series of overt and covert conflicts result, upsetting people, both day and night. What are the reasons? The reasons are because there is something wrong with the social operating systems. It is not that people are sinned, not at all.
In short, man is not born sinned. There is the saying of "forcing young girls of good families to prostitute themselves" and "forcing boys to join the rebels". Who forces? It is the social operating mechanism that forces.
As I have said before, the core crisis of mankind is the crisis of the soul. Well then, I am now saying that man is not born from sin. The sin is caused by bad social operating mechanisms. Are they contradictory? Are the Chanyuan Values themselves creating paradoxes? No and no!
Good social operating mechanisms need to be built by people with beautiful souls. Without beautiful souls, good social operating mechanisms can never be built, so the construction of the soul is the first requirement, but beautiful souls are not enough. We must construct a good social operating mechanism with beautiful souls. Otherwise, the beautiful souls will not be sustained for very long. This is more like the love between men and women. At first, everything goes fine, but if they do not build operating mechanisms to reinforce their original intentions, conflicts will soon develop which will either lead to their breaking up, or to their struggling in pain for a lifetime.
All religions, including Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Taoism, Hinduism, and others, have problems on establishing good social operating mechanisms. All the various cultivation groups, including the Indian ones, the Chinese ones, recent spiritual practice groups in the west, and others have ignored the establishment and construction of good social operating mechanisms.
All political parties, especially the Communist Party organizations under the guidance of Marxism, are working hard to build better social operating mechanisms, but they neglect the Greatest Creator and the construction of the human soul. If political party organizations neglect the Greatest Creator and the human soul, they cannot build good social operating mechanisms, despite how hard they might try. If religious organizations ignore the building of good social operating mechanisms, then regardless of what they claim, whether it is the reappearance of Jesus, the reincarnation of Maitreya, Deity Celestial Beings descending to earth, the reappearance of dharmacakra, or threats such as impending catastrophes or “the apocalypse", are useless and unhelpful to the world. If cults conjure up their spirits and deities, describe fortunes and disasters, and escapes from reality, lead befuddled lives as if drunk or in a dream, study sorcery and witchcraft, and play with spells, their members could never become Celestial Beings or Buddha or get away from the six worlds of reincarnation. For them to even reemerge human, an afterlife would be very difficult.
If you sinned in your previous life, then you have been punished.
If your ancestors sinned, they had to bear it, but that has nothing to do with you. A king’s children may not be kings or queens. A thief’s children need not necessarily be thieves.
Man is not born into sin. Whether we are sinned or not depends on whether we revere nature, revere LIFE, revere the Greatest Creator, and whether we take on the Way of the Greatest Creator.
