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Youkilledkenny
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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2016 8:45 am  Where did it go? Reply with quote

With the exception of the occasional "wedding cake issue" or the like, it seems that the 'Christian vs. Gay" argument has died down a lot in the USA since gay marriage has become legal.
Have Christians given up on the complaining about how bad gay people are, are Christians re-grouping, have Christians that complained about gay people gone on holiday or have Christians all of a sudden, become "OK" with gay people?
Or, perhaps, the media has found other causes to accost us with these days?
Or are there other reasons (sinister or benign)?
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 61: Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:01 pm
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shnarkle wrote:

Yep, and I have been pointing that out from the beginning. You are simply stating your opinion with no regard to the facts presented in the link you provided.

You say that but you can't point out what fact I have not taken into account, all the while ignoring the fact that the gay couple where refused service when they went to buy a wedding cake, something that a straight couple would have no problem doing.

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Exactly!!! No one should have privileged status to begin with. All should be treated equally.

And yet there you are, trying to tell me that the people should be able to treat people differently based on "whatever asinine reasons they can think of including race, sexual orientation, ethnicity, gender, etc." What's with the inconsistency?

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There is no one compelling the public to patronize this bakery, and no one should compel the baker to serve anyone against his will either. It should be a two way street. Fair is fair.

You ask for fairness? So tell me, which is the fairer society, where everyone treats people equally, even if some only do so grudgingly; or a society where some people are treat different for whatever asinine reasons?

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 62: Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:29 am
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Youkilledkenny wrote:

With the exception of the occasional "wedding cake issue" or the like, it seems that the 'Christian vs. Gay" argument has died down a lot in the USA since gay marriage has become legal.
Have Christians given up on the complaining about how bad gay people are, are Christians re-grouping, have Christians that complained about gay people gone on holiday or have Christians all of a sudden, become "OK" with gay people?
Or, perhaps, the media has found other causes to accost us with these days?
Or are there other reasons (sinister or benign)?


one can cry don't do that to a society, but the society when it does it there's no sense in speaking any more to that which hates your God.

it isn't about the "gays" its about how a society deals with it.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 63: Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:03 pm
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[Replying to post 1 by Youkilledkenny]

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With the exception of the occasional "wedding cake issue" or the like, it seems that the 'Christian vs. Gay" argument has died down a lot in the USA since gay marriage has become legal.



Perception is everything. IMO, it was never Christian vs. Gay. But I think I know what you are saying. Seems many Christian denominations have changed their beliefs regarding same sex unions and chosen to follow the fashions of the day. These same groups have equally caved on many other moral issues over the last 40 years like contraception, pre marital sex, pornography, divorce, and some even abortion.


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Have Christians given up on the complaining about how bad gay people are



I am not aware of Christians complaining about how bad gay people are (except a few extreme warped groups). Most Christians I know don’t spend their time saying how bad and what monsters people who engage in immorality are. One seldom hears Christians condemning the alcoholic, kleptomaniac, teen who had sex outside of marriage, prostitute, woman who has an abortion, person who had an adulterous affair, etc. Most Christians are capable of condemning the wrongful act, while simultaneously showing love and understanding to the person. Again, perception is everything. Christians I know care about others and recognize that living contrary to what is right/good can never bring peace, happiness, or human fulfillment.

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, are Christians re-grouping



There is no need to re group. If something is right/good that doesn’t change just because a large group of people start proclaiming otherwise. Abortion will always be immoral, but now that it is legal, Christians continue to do what they have always done – teach the truth and try to help/support those who need it. It was never about pointing fingers or calling women who have abortions evil. I would say the same is true for same sex relations.



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Or, perhaps, the media has found other causes to accost us with these days?


This one makes me laugh a little showing once again perception is everything. Tcg said something similar in this thread:
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The fact that mass media has lost interest in reporting these anti-gay attitudes doesn't necessarily mean those attitudes have changed or diminished to a significant degree.


First, funny to think the media is reporting less anti-gay stories. Perhaps, because there were very few to report to begin with. The media today goes out of their way to look for what they view as anti gay attitudes. They desperately seek these anti gay sentiments because they fit their agenda so much so that they often call things anti gay that aren’t anti gay.

The story of Matthew Shepard is a great example of incorrectly crying “anti gay hate crime” and the medias drive to paint this picture. It is a distortion of the truth, but the truth doesn’t fit their agenda so they need to force it to.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/14/matthew-shepard-murder-wyoming-boo...

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 64: Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:45 pm
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RightReason wrote:

Seems many Christian denominations have changed their beliefs regarding same sex unions and chosen to follow the fashions of the day. These same groups have equally caved on many other moral issues over the last 40 years like contraception, pre marital sex, pornography, divorce, and some even abortion.


Seems you have a fixation about sex. Fair enough; I have a fixation on poverty. But it seems to me that with the admitted exception of the abortion issue, your litany of distaste (being gay, or being gay and married to a gay, or practicing contraception, or having pre-marital sex, or consuming pornography, or getting divorced), does not actually lead to any deaths. But starvation does. So I would argue that poverty is the more important wrong to right in the world, and would welcome the changes in attitudes of those Christian denominations that have decided to refocus their activities.

And, mainly, it's not a case of 'caving in' to fashionable popular sentiment, but simply being amenable to rational argument, and sympathetic to the difficult situations people sometimes find themselves in. And I think that to be a good thing.

But right now it's a question of priorities. Once everyone has enough to eat, and clean water to drink, then we can quibble about whether gays get to go to heaven or not.

Best wishes, 2RM.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 65: Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:25 pm
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For me the important issues were freedom of association and the free market. If you have not noticed, on other threads, I have not slowed down on those issues. If people wish to associate in ways that I find objectionable, that is fine, as long as I am not required to take part. If someone says that they do not wish to do business with me, for whatever reason, fine. Just don't stop me from doing business with those who are willing to do business with me.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 66: Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:07 pm
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[Replying to post 64 by 2ndRateMind]

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Seems you have a fixation about sex.


Sorry, I’m not sure what you are talking about. Isn’t that the topic of the thread?

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it seems to me that with the admitted exception of the abortion issue, your litany of distaste (being gay, or being gay and married to a gay, or practicing contraception, or having pre-marital sex, or consuming pornography, or getting divorced), does not actually lead to any deaths.


Huh? Since when is what is right/wrong based only on that which causes death? It’s wrong to swipe office supplies from the company stock room, but doing so isn’t going to cause anyone to die. But you also may be surprised that it could be argued how much homosexual acts, sex outside of marriage, and pornography do in fact lead to death.

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But starvation does. So I would argue that poverty is the more important wrong to right in the world, and would welcome the changes in attitudes of those Christian denominations that have decided to refocus their activities.


Riiiiiiight. Because if I talk about marriage or pornography I don’t really care if there are people who don’t have enough food. Maybe if we valued people/love/marriage/children, then we could help solve some of the world’s poverty. Charity begins at home. Expect people to be generous and help others? It starts with a loving family providing good example, especially regarding morality and virtue.


I find it ironic to think focusing on the family is off base in a way to combat poverty. It all starts with the family. Cultures that value human life, value the oppressed, the vulnerable, the less fortunate are cultures that value the family and uphold family values – yes, even those having to do with sexual morality. They know casual sex, sex outside of marriage, promiscuity, adultery, homosexual acts, lead to physical and psychological problems. Poverty is the highest where families are not intact. When we don’t value marriage, we cause poverty. When we don’t combat pornography, we are contributing to poverty. We see women as objects. We see each other as sexual objects to be used. Fathers leave. Children are left behind. Women can’t take care of these children with deadbeat fathers. This leads to poverty.

We can see the damage caused when we hold an immoral view regarding human sexuality. When human beings fail to appreciate the sacredness of the marital act by trying to eliminating the natural procreative nature of the act, we destroy the family which has devastating consequences in the world.


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And, mainly, it's not a case of 'caving in' to fashionable popular sentiment, but simply being amenable to rational argument, and sympathetic to the difficult situations people sometimes find themselves in. And I think that to be a good thing.


One can be sympathetic while still upholding Truth. In fact, it does no good and is a false sense of compassion and a disservice to not teach truth. This is such a pet peeve of mine. People hunger for the truth, but instead they are given a watered down version, because we think they can’t handle the truth. How cruel.

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But right now it's a question of priorities. Once everyone has enough to eat, and clean water to drink, then we can quibble about whether gays get to go to heaven or not.


Again, not an either OR. One can and should do both. Why don’t people have enough to eat and drink? We don’t value the human person. This starts in our own families. And it starts with teaching truth.

I always find it sad when people are more concerned about the environment, the food supply, then the human soul. The poor will always be with you. We need to do everything we can for the poor, but we need to get our own houses in order or we will be incapable of helping anyone.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 67: Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:21 am
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[Replying to post 65 by bluethread]

What about the risk of returning to the days of "no blacks allowed?"

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 68: Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:24 am
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RightReason wrote:


I always find it sad when people are more concerned about the environment, the food supply, then the human soul.


They are not inconsistent. It tends to be those good souls, who love, who are concerned by such matters. And, in my experience, those who do not so love who don't really care, either for the world, or their fellow humanity, who complain most vociferously about what others get up to in bed. As if it might have anything to do with them, at all.

Even if it did, those who are hungry and/or starving don't get much opportunity to develop their souls towards virtue in the confidence that they are beloved by all, as God might wish.

And, often enough, it is those those who do not care who claim that their love for the human soul justifies their distaste for unconventional human sexual practices, when really they are only expressing personal prejudice.

Let God decide who inhabits heaven. The rest of us have enough to do just to implement Jesus' challenges, to love God, and love each other, universally and unconditionally.

Best wishes, 2RM.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 69: Wed Nov 07, 2018 4:34 pm
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[Replying to post 68 by 2ndRateMind]



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I always find it sad when people are more concerned about the environment, the food supply, then the human soul.


They are not inconsistent.



Indeed. We are body and soul. You think human beings simply need food and water? We can all learn something from Mother Teresa, who helped take care of the poorest of the poor. She recognized what these human beings needed was not simply food and shelter. They needed their dignity recognized. They were moved more by smiles and hugs and the human connection then by the rice she gave them – her observation not mine.


Quote:
It tends to be those good souls, who love, who are concerned by such matters. And, in my experience, those who do not so love who don't really care, either for the world, or their fellow humanity


Riiiiiiight. Again, like Mother Teresa who ministered to the forgotten and abandoned and yet did not hesitate to get up in front of a group of college grads and lecture them about the evils of fornication. She had no problem declaring that any society that allows its mothers to kill their own children has no future. She didn’t say we need to get people more food and water, because she knows what we need to hear and how things like love, sex, and family are interconnected and certainly influence poverty.


,
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who complain most vociferously about what others get up to in bed. As if it might have anything to do with them, at all.


We are all affected by the ripple effect of sin.

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And, often enough, it is those those who do not care who claim that their love for the human soul justifies their distaste for unconventional human sexual practices, when really they are only expressing personal prejudice.


Sadly, this sometimes can be the case. But I submit that has become the argument when that is not really what is going on. It’s easy to accuse those against homosexual acts or those who speak out against things like pre marital sex are bigoted haters, but that’s simply a lack of understanding about God, man, God’s purpose for man, human happiness and fulfillment, love, family, etc.

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Let God decide who inhabits heaven


Totally agree.

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. The rest of us have enough to do just to implement Jesus' challenges, to love God, and love each other, universally and unconditionally.


Yes we do. And my job as a wife and mother is to help get my husband and children to heaven. The Bible speaks about fraternal correction, being witnesses, fighting the good fight, and speaking out for what is right and good.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 70: Thu Nov 08, 2018 1:57 pm
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RightReason wrote:

[Replying to post 68 by 2ndRateMind]

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I always find it sad when people are more concerned about the environment, the food supply, then the human soul.



They are not inconsistent.



RightReason wrote:
Indeed. We are body and soul. You think human beings simply need food and water?


I never said that. But food and clean water are the prerequisites for any kind of life at all.


RightReason wrote:
We can all learn something from Mother Teresa, who helped take care of the poorest of the poor. She recognized what these human beings needed was not simply food and shelter. They needed their dignity recognized. They were moved more by smiles and hugs and the human connection then by the rice she gave them – her observation not mine.


Mother Teresa is not without her critics.


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It tends to be those good souls, who love, who are concerned by such matters. And, in my experience, those who do not so love who don't really care, either for the world, or their fellow humanity


RightReason wrote:
Riiiiiiight. Again, like Mother Teresa who ministered to the forgotten and abandoned and yet did not hesitate to get up in front of a group of college grads and lecture them about the evils of fornication. She had no problem declaring that any society that allows its mothers to kill their own children has no future. She didn’t say we need to get people more food and water, because she knows what we need to hear and how things like love, sex, and family are interconnected and certainly influence poverty.


I'm sure they do. And I am sure that over the long term, those virtuous people who have the strength of character to live righteous, moral lives do better than those who don't. Provided they have enough to eat and drink.


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who complain most vociferously about what others get up to in bed. As if it might have anything to do with them, at all.


RightReason wrote:
We are all affected by the ripple effect of sin.


And how are you affected by some gay or lesbian couple getting married, and living together as husband and husband, or wife and wife?

Quote:
And, often enough, it is those those who do not care who claim that their love for the human soul justifies their distaste for unconventional human sexual practices, when really they are only expressing personal prejudice.


RightReason wrote:
Sadly, this sometimes can be the case. But I submit that has become the argument when that is not really what is going on. It’s easy to accuse those against homosexual acts or those who speak out against things like pre marital sex are bigoted haters, but that’s simply a lack of understanding about God, man, God’s purpose for man, human happiness and fulfillment, love, family, etc.


And you know God's purpose for humanity, and what makes everyone everywhere happy and fulfilled?

Best wishes, 2RM.

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