Christians will lie for Jesus.
With the humble handful here, I have seen what I submit is dishonest behaviour in pretending not to understand a question, or cluttering a post so others won't read it, or omitting parts of quotes that don't fit beliefs, and numerous other dodges and deceptions.
As an Atheist, I openly declare that I understand the biblical (and possibly not even Jewish) deity Yahweh to be as mythological as Isis or any other version of "God".
But, should I discover evidence that yes indeed Yahweh is the original universe-creating, planet-flooding, son-begetting capital G God of the entire cosmos and beyond ...
Will I, as a moral-compassless sinner who has foregone his place with Jesus to indulge in a life of carnal pleasure, fail to mention that glorious fact publically ...?
Lying for Atheism
Moderator: Moderators
Post #21
RedEye wrote:Why? I prefer truth, ie. what accords with reality.Tart wrote: I dont think the presupposition that divine acts cant happen, is a valid position to assume. I think it would be far more reasonable to assume a neutral position, and withhold judgement on whether "dead corpses can come back to life"...
"Truth is stranger than fiction", a quote echoed throughout the ages... And suppressing that kind of thought, that childish kind of wonder that i think we all have and are born with, to suppress that kind of thought is a bias people adopt with worldviews... It is far more reasonable to withhold judgement, and allow the unknown to be possible. In fact, I think that is a natural kind of position for human knowledge, and rejecting that kind of position is unnatural... You claim Jesus resurrection doesn't accord with reality, but I say your presupposition is the thing that doesnt accord with reality...
Post #22
The full quotation is:Tart wrote:"Truth is stranger than fiction", a quote echoed throughout the ages... And suppressing that kind of thought, that childish kind of wonder that i think we all have and are born with, to suppress that kind of thought is a bias people adopt with worldviews... It is far more reasonable to withhold judgement, and allow the unknown to be possible. In fact, I think that is a natural kind of position for human knowledge, and rejecting that kind of position is unnatural... You claim Jesus resurrection doesn't accord with reality, but I say your presupposition is the thing that doesnt accord with reality...RedEye wrote:Why? I prefer truth, ie. what accords with reality.Tart wrote: I dont think the presupposition that divine acts cant happen, is a valid position to assume. I think it would be far more reasonable to assume a neutral position, and withhold judgement on whether "dead corpses can come back to life"...
- “Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't.�
― Mark Twain
- "Let us keep our minds open, by all means, as long as that means keeping our sense of perspective and seeking an understanding of the forces which mould the world. But don’t keep your minds so open that your brains fall out! There are still things in this world which are true and things which are false; acts which are right and acts which are wrong, even if there are statesmen who hide their designs under the cloak of high-sounding phrases."
— Walter Kotschnig November 8, 1939
Never ascribe to malice that which can be explained by incompetence.
Post #23
God has been credited with the order in physics. In fact, the term "physics" was coined in a book that argued that the natural order is proof and evidence of a God, (Physics, Aristotle)...RedEye wrote:The full quotation is:Tart wrote:"Truth is stranger than fiction", a quote echoed throughout the ages... And suppressing that kind of thought, that childish kind of wonder that i think we all have and are born with, to suppress that kind of thought is a bias people adopt with worldviews... It is far more reasonable to withhold judgement, and allow the unknown to be possible. In fact, I think that is a natural kind of position for human knowledge, and rejecting that kind of position is unnatural... You claim Jesus resurrection doesn't accord with reality, but I say your presupposition is the thing that doesnt accord with reality...RedEye wrote:Why? I prefer truth, ie. what accords with reality.Tart wrote: I dont think the presupposition that divine acts cant happen, is a valid position to assume. I think it would be far more reasonable to assume a neutral position, and withhold judgement on whether "dead corpses can come back to life"...
This quote comes to mind too:
- “Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't.�
― Mark Twain
A rotting corpse coming back to life after three days would violate the laws of physics. It has never happened and will never happen. You just can't repair 100 billion brain cells and the synapses between them once the cells have died. It's not possible unless you invoke magic. Now we could take a neutral position on this just as we could take a neutral position on whether a man could leap into outer space but it would be irrational to do so. I prefer the rational approach. You may call that unnatural but I beg to differ. It is perfectly natural to value rational thought. It aids survival. Without it we might step off a cliff on the off chance that this could be the day when the laws of gravity are suspended!
- "Let us keep our minds open, by all means, as long as that means keeping our sense of perspective and seeking an understanding of the forces which mould the world. But don’t keep your minds so open that your brains fall out! There are still things in this world which are true and things which are false; acts which are right and acts which are wrong, even if there are statesmen who hide their designs under the cloak of high-sounding phrases."
— Walter Kotschnig November 8, 1939
And God could do all the miracles you discredit Him, but supposing that the natural laws God put in place should be suspended by God for you, is a wage from the devil... God's will be done, and living faithfully, is the will of Christianity.
(Matthew 4)
5 Then the devil took Him up into the holy city, set Him on the pinnacle of the temple, 6 and said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down. For it is written:
‘He shall give His angels charge over you,’
and,
‘In their hands they shall bear you up,
Lest you dash your foot against a stone.’ �
7 Jesus said to him, “It is written again, ‘You shall not tempt the Lord your God.’ �
..."Away with you, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve.’ �
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Tcg
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Post #24
God?
Which God?
Who credited this to it?
Why should any rational human accept your unspecified and unsupported claim?
Until you can address these questions in a satisfactory manner, this is nothing but an example of a follower of a particular God padding it's resume given that fact that it can't do so for itself.
As with most, if not all apologetic claims, this does nothing but bolster the tenuous claims of a believer grasping to find a reason not to abandon an unproveable and unreasonable faith.
Emotion lead to their faith and emotion sustains it. Empty claims are convincing given that empty claims compelled them to believe in the first place.
Those of us who aren't swayed by empty claims find it most uncompelling.
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StuartJ
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Post #25
[Replying to post 23 by Tart]
But I'm pretty sure it had nothing to do with the topic.
And I'm even surer you can't back it up with anything that's outside your head.
But, you know, happy for you to show me to be wrong.
Now, Tart, is there any benefit to the Atheist in lying about there really being god/s outside the human imagination ...?
I have absolutely NO idea what that was all about ...?And God could do all the miracles you discredit Him, but supposing that the natural laws God put in place should be suspended by God for you, is a wage from the devil... God's will be done, and living faithfully, is the will of Christianity.
But I'm pretty sure it had nothing to do with the topic.
And I'm even surer you can't back it up with anything that's outside your head.
But, you know, happy for you to show me to be wrong.
Now, Tart, is there any benefit to the Atheist in lying about there really being god/s outside the human imagination ...?
No one EVER demonstrates that "God" exists outside their parietal cortex.
Post #26
The "crediting" has been done by god-believers. So what? First you believe in a god, then you start attributing all kinds of things to him. Thor has been credited with creating the sound of thunder. Does Thor exist? Does God exist because something is credited to him?Tart wrote:God has been credited with the order in physics. In fact, the term "physics" was coined in a book that argued that the natural order is proof and evidence of a God, (Physics, Aristotle)...RedEye wrote:The full quotation is:Tart wrote:"Truth is stranger than fiction", a quote echoed throughout the ages... And suppressing that kind of thought, that childish kind of wonder that i think we all have and are born with, to suppress that kind of thought is a bias people adopt with worldviews... It is far more reasonable to withhold judgement, and allow the unknown to be possible. In fact, I think that is a natural kind of position for human knowledge, and rejecting that kind of position is unnatural... You claim Jesus resurrection doesn't accord with reality, but I say your presupposition is the thing that doesnt accord with reality...RedEye wrote:Why? I prefer truth, ie. what accords with reality.Tart wrote: I dont think the presupposition that divine acts cant happen, is a valid position to assume. I think it would be far more reasonable to assume a neutral position, and withhold judgement on whether "dead corpses can come back to life"...
This quote comes to mind too:
- “Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't.�
― Mark Twain
A rotting corpse coming back to life after three days would violate the laws of physics. It has never happened and will never happen. You just can't repair 100 billion brain cells and the synapses between them once the cells have died. It's not possible unless you invoke magic. Now we could take a neutral position on this just as we could take a neutral position on whether a man could leap into outer space but it would be irrational to do so. I prefer the rational approach. You may call that unnatural but I beg to differ. It is perfectly natural to value rational thought. It aids survival. Without it we might step off a cliff on the off chance that this could be the day when the laws of gravity are suspended!
- "Let us keep our minds open, by all means, as long as that means keeping our sense of perspective and seeking an understanding of the forces which mould the world. But don’t keep your minds so open that your brains fall out! There are still things in this world which are true and things which are false; acts which are right and acts which are wrong, even if there are statesmen who hide their designs under the cloak of high-sounding phrases."
— Walter Kotschnig November 8, 1939
Never ascribe to malice that which can be explained by incompetence.
