Jesus died for HIS sins

[Willum]

Most theists deny Caesar was worshiped as a god.
But he was.
Most theists claim it is OK to venerate a false god, so long as you recognize it is a false god.
Except they are all false gods, except one, right?
Most theists claim there can be nothing wrong with paying tax.
Unless that tax is the worship a god desires and those coins are engraved images proclaiming the divinity of other gods.

Most theists claim Jesus, who had no authority to the Jewish people as a Rabbi, proclaimed an adulteress could go free with a strawman (and are fooled by the strawman).
But, either she was guilty, and according to God's laws, should have been stoned, and violating it was violating God's laws, or the people bearing false witness against her should have been punished. Either way, someone should have been punished. Failing that, Jesus should have been.

So lets examine why Jesus was killed.
Most say Jesus CLEVERLY avoided "traps."

I can't help but notice he was justifiably, in the eyes of the Jews, killed for blasphemy.
1. He said it was OK to follow the desires of the god Caesar.
2. He said it was OK to use coins decrying the divinity of Rome's gods.
3. He abrogated the punishment for either adultery or bearing false witness.

There is no Judaic world view where his only punishment could be anything other than death.
(And why did he get a Roman trial, when the adulteress got a public spectacle?)

If you were a Judaist, is there any reason you would not be obligated by your belief in the true God, to have Jesus killed?

Please try to look at it from their point of view.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 10 by jeremiah1five]

I can barely follow your words, however, I think you are saying that you ascribe to the theory that Jesus, because of his blasphemy and command of demons, that he was a mystic fraud, empowered by Satan, or whatever? as certainly many of the things he did were not prophesied, and he missed many things that were.

Well, I don't think so, I think that he was invented years after the Diaspora.
However that theory does hold more water than the mainstream Christian view. It is still more believable if you just make him a magician.

It is still more believable if you notice that appropriate physical evidence for Jesus does not exist. Works of carpentry, a Testimony and avid following of Lazarus after resurrection, and so on...

Go well.

[1213]

It is my truth that is disturbing you.

It is interesting how one can be blatant liar.

Why don't YOU render to the God Caesar all the things that are his.

I don’t have anything that is Caesars.

Besides, any chance of you looking at it from the Judaic perspective, instead of your own anachronistic one?

Why do you think your opinion is from Judaic perspective?

[1213]

In that case, then why did the Biblical God command men to stone sinners to death in the first place?

I think it is because in some cases it is right thing to do.

Why didn't he just command them to forgive the sinners?

God gave the law and he gave also the judges to judge according to the law. Law tells what is wrong and what one would deserve and judge tells what will be the judgment in certain situation. Judges had right to look at the situation and then make righteous judgment. For judges, God gave these:

"Thus has Yahweh of Hosts spoken, saying, 'Execute true judgment, and show kindness and compassion every man to his brother.
Zechariah 7:9

I charged your judges at that time, saying, Hear the causes between your brothers, and judge righteously between a man and his brother, and the foreigner who is living with him. You shall not show partiality in judgment; you shall hear the small and the great alike; you shall not be afraid of the face of man; for the judgment is God's: and the cause that is too hard for you, you shall bring to me, and I will hear it.
Deuteronomy 1:16-17

"You shall not spread a false report. Don't join your hand with the wicked to be a malicious witness. You shall not follow a crowd to do evil; neither shall you testify in court to side with a multitude to pervert justice; neither shall you favor a poor man in his cause.
Exodus 23:1-3

At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he who is to die be put to death; at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death.
Deuteronomy 17:6

Forgiveness depends on the situation. In some cases, when person is truly evil, forgiveness is not useful. But if person regrets and shows righteousness, his wrong doings can be forgiven.

… he gives grace to the humble.
Pro 3:34

He who conceals his sins doesn't prosper, But whoever confesses and renounces them finds mercy.
Pro. 28:13

Let favor be shown to the wicked, yet will he not learn righteousness; in the land of uprightness will he deal wrongfully, and will not see the majesty of Yahweh.
Isa. 26:10

…So you are actually wrong to say that forgivenss has never been illegal in Biblical law.

There is no law in the Bible that says it is illegal to forgive. But in some cases it may have been so that there is no room for pity, for example in case of truly wicked people, like in the Isa. 26:10.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 12 by 1213]

Why do you think your opinion is from Judaic perspective?

I am asking you to take on their perspective, at least try.
But if you did, you would see what a charlatan Jesus was, and why the Jews, TO THIS DAY, were not so gullible as to believe in him.

[Replying to post 13 by 1213]

You do realize, that by agreeing with DI, you have by proxy accepted his (brilliant) premise that (not only) Jesus, is a fraud?

[marco]

It is interesting how one can be blatant liar.

Moderator Comment


It is unlike your style to be uncivil, 1213, and since "one" here may be an invitation to reflect on anyone's decline into untruth, I'll just comment. The word "liar" usually comes with incivility so it should be used with caution, if at all.


Please review the Rules.


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Moderator comments do not count as a strike against any posters. They only serve as an acknowledgment that a post report has been received, but has not been judged to warrant a moderator warning against a particular poster. Any challenges or replies to moderator postings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.