What Did Jesus Actually Sacrifice?

[RedEye]

These are some lyrics from Jesus Christ Superstar:

• Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ
  Who are you? What have you sacrificed?

It's a great question. What did Jesus actually sacrifice?

Christian doctrine has it that Jesus sacrificed his life in order to appease God the Father and gain forgiveness for the sins of mankind. But did Jesus really sacrifice his life? He is an immortal being and therefore cannot die. All that happened, if anything, is that he shed his Earthly body and then ascended back to his place in heaven. Shedding a temporary body is no big deal for a god. Jesus is alive and well in heaven (and he will be making a second coming soon according to many).

If you are alive then you did not really die. It was a pretend death. I know some of you may argue that it was a real death of his Earthly body, but so what? He wasn't going to stay in that form forever and it was only a shell he was wearing over his divine nature. The plan was always for him to return to his Father. Human bodies die eventually anyway from old age. Jesus lost nothing essential to him.

I therefore put it to Christians that there was no actual sacrifice. Can any Christian argue otherwise?

[RedEye]

Jesus = Word = God

Jesus is the Word (made flesh) and the Word is God.

• Are you claiming that the text is saying Jesus is ALMIGHTY God the Creator (YHWH) ?
  
  Since neither the word "Almighty" nor the divine name ( YHWH) is mentioned in the scripture upon what basis do you make such an assumption?

I certainly am making that claim. That's what the text states. I even bolded it for you:

• John 1
  1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 41 by RedEye]

Is the word Almighy in the text?

[RedEye]

[Replying to post 41 by RedEye]
Is the word Almighy in the text?

I fail to see the relevance. Are you claiming that there is a God and a God Almighty, ie. two different gods?

[marco]

And deleting the Scripture I post that answers the question put forward and coming back at me to say I didn't answer the question is what?

Honest?

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[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 41 by RedEye]
Is the word Almighy in the text?

I fail to see the relevance.

Well let me enlighten you.... The only individual in the bible associated with intrinsic immortality is YHWH, who repeatedly identifies himself as being Almighty (All powerful/omnipotent). The word "god" itself is mentioned in relation to all manner of individuals from Satan to human judges to numerous pagan gods. Thus unless you can present some evidence to support an assumption that The Word is Almighty God, the scripture you present is irrelavent.

Now, again, based on what do you assume that "The Word" mentioned here is Almighty God, ergo immortal ?





JW

[RedEye]

[Replying to post 41 by RedEye]
Is the word Almighy in the text?

I fail to see the relevance. Are you claiming that there is a God and a God Almighty, ie. two different gods?

Well let me enlighten you.... The only individual in the bible associated with intrinsic immortality is YHWH, who repeatedly identifies himself as being Almighty (All powerful/omnipotent). The word "god" itself is mentioned in relation to all manner of individuals from Satan to human judges to numerous pagan gods. Thus unless you can present some evidence to support an assumption that The Word is Almighty God, the scripture you present is irrelavent.

Now, again, based on what do you assume that "The Word" mentioned here is Almighty God, ergo immortal ?

You haven't answered my question. Who is John 1 referring to if not the God (Yahweh)? As John 1:3 states "Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made". That sounds like Yahweh to me. Or is there some other God who created everything?

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 41 by RedEye]
Is the word Almighy in the text?

I fail to see the relevance. Are you claiming that there is a God and a God Almighty, ie. two different gods?

Well let me enlighten you.... The only individual in the bible associated with intrinsic immortality is YHWH, who repeatedly identifies himself as being Almighty (All powerful/omnipotent). The word "god" itself is mentioned in relation to all manner of individuals from Satan to human judges to numerous pagan gods. Thus unless you can present some evidence to support an assumption that The Word is Almighty God, the scripture you present is irrelavent.

Now, again, based on what do you assume that "The Word" mentioned here is Almighty God, ergo immortal ?

You haven't answered my question.

I don't have to. You're the one that presented John1:1 as evidence, you can either prove it supports your point or drop it. I have explained scripturally why it might not and how you could use it, ie by establishing The Word indeed refers to the Almighty who , in other passages IS associated with immortality, but as yet you have done either.

Present your rationale or don't: your scripture, your call.



JW

[RedEye]

[Replying to post 41 by RedEye]
Is the word Almighy in the text?

I fail to see the relevance. Are you claiming that there is a God and a God Almighty, ie. two different gods?

Well let me enlighten you.... The only individual in the bible associated with intrinsic immortality is YHWH, who repeatedly identifies himself as being Almighty (All powerful/omnipotent). The word "god" itself is mentioned in relation to all manner of individuals from Satan to human judges to numerous pagan gods. Thus unless you can present some evidence to support an assumption that The Word is Almighty God, the scripture you present is irrelavent.

Now, again, based on what do you assume that "The Word" mentioned here is Almighty God, ergo immortal ?

You haven't answered my question. Who is John 1 referring to if not the God (Yahweh)? As John 1:3 states "Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made". That sounds like Yahweh to me. Or is there some other God who created everything?

I don't have to [answer your question]...

Fine. Then you must be conceding that the God being referred to in John 1 is the one and only god Yahweh (the Almighty if you prefer). Thank you. I think we might be done.

[JehovahsWitness]

Fine. Then you must be conceding that the God being referred to in John 1 is the one and only god Yahweh (the Almighty if you prefer). .

I don't see why I need to do any such thing. You presented a scripture and have so far presented nothing to support the above assumption.

If you have anything serious to say in response I'm happy to give it consideration. I come here for serious debate with knowledgabe and respectful participants and am uninterested in childish attempts to have the last word.

Have a most excellent day,


JW

[RedEye]

Fine. Then you must be conceding that the God being referred to in John 1 is the one and only god Yahweh (the Almighty if you prefer).

I don't see why I need to do any such thing. You presented a scripture and have so far presented nothing to support the above assumption.

That's just not true. I presented multiple quotes from John 1 as you well know. I then asked you what God was being referred to there if it wasn't Yahweh (as the text clearly indicates). So far you just refuse to answer a simple straightforward question. When and if you ever choose to respond to that question, then perhaps we can progress this discussion. The ball is in your court, not mine.