Knowledge: justified, true, belief?

[2ndRateMind]

Is faith knowledge? Is non-faith, knowledge?

Does our choice in the matter amount to a claim of knowledge?

Best wishes, 2RM.

[BeHereNow]

[Replying to post 20 by Divine Insight]

What discipline developed and oversees logic, reasoning, and critical thinking?

[Divine Insight]

[Replying to post 20 by Divine Insight]

What discipline developed and oversees logic, reasoning, and critical thinking?

There is no discipline that "oversees" logic, reasoning and critical thinking.

Reasoning and critical thinking are natural primal traits of how humans tend to think. Obviously not all humans are equally critical of their reasoning, but those who were tended to produce the most productive arguments and conclusions.

I would also suggest that "logic" is a formalized discipline in and of itself. Produced by people who reasoned critically.

You appear to be avoiding the ultimate TRUTH.

Philosophy that does not include rigorous observations of the real world in order to determine the truth has proved itself to be ineffective often leading to false conclusions (several examples of which I had given in my previous post).

And here's the catch that you appear to be attempting to deny:

Philosophy that incorporates rigorous observations of the real world in order to determine the truth has become what we today call "Science".

So there's really no getting around it:

Philosophy that does not include rigorous observations of the real world in order to determine the truth is dead. It cannot lead us to dependable conclusions of truth.

Philosophy that incorporates rigorous observations of the real world in order to determine the truth is SCIENCE.

So if you want to look at it from this perspective you could say that science is philosophy that has become "fully matured".

And any residue philosophies that have failed to mature are simply inept philosophies that have been proven to be incapable of leading us to truth, and have simply remained in a state of ignorance refusing to move forward to the only valid and productive philosophy which is science itself.

[BeHereNow]

[Replying to post 22 by Divine Insight]

Suppose you wanted to further your formal education. You decided you were going to take a few university classes in logic, and critical thinking.

Of course all courses are in certain departments. Some courses might overlap.
What department, would you be registering in, and what department would your professor be assigned to, so you could get credits in logic and critical thinking?

Here is a hint:
Our students learn to think critically, to analyze and construct arguments, and to identify the basic but often unstated assumptions at work in other disciplines or endeavors. In other words, our students learn the kinds of critical, interpretive, analytical, and argumentative skills highly prized by employers in a wide variety of fields, from publishing and non-profit work to consulting and information technology. In addition, because philosophy students score consistently higher than other majors on LSAT, MCAT, and GMAT exams, philosophy provides an outstanding preparation for law school, medical school, and other advanced degrees. And, for those students interested in pursuing graduate work in philosophy, our department has a strong track record of placing its graduates into top-notch PhD programs. Finally, philosophy provides students with the critical and reflective capacities necessary for ongoing personal development and self-transformation in every facet of their lives.

[Divine Insight]

Suppose you wanted to further your formal education. You decided you were going to take a few university classes in logic, and critical thinking.

Of course all courses are in certain departments. Some courses might overlap.
What department, would you be registering in, and what department would your professor be assigned to, so you could get credits in logic and critical thinking?

How academic institutions have decided to categorize and label their departments is totally irrelevant.

It should be obvious to any rational person that any form of so-called "critical thinking" that refuses to take into consideration rigorous observations of the real world is not very "critical" of how it proceeds.

On the other hand if "critical thinking" includes the evaluation of rigorous observations of the real world, it has already become "science".

Even "philosophers" who attempt to get at the concept of morality by observing the human condition and what may or may not be beneficial to humanity or a human social structure, are actually doing the "science" of psychology, even if they refuse to acknowledge this.

There is simply no way around this.

Just because our academic institutions dropped the ball by not recognizing science as the ultimate fruition of philosophy doesn't make their mistake correct. The fact that they continue to hand out philosophy degrees to people who weren't even properly educated on the fact that science is the epitome of philosophy is actually a terrible mistake. One that isn't likely to be corrected anytime soon either, unfortunately.