Should Paul curse people?

[marco]

Here is Paul speaking with menace:

Galatians 1: 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God's curse! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God's curse! 10 Am I now trying to win the approval of human beings, or of God.


It seems to me he's obviously trying to win over people, not God, though that might be a secondary motive.

Does Paul have the right to call down curses on people who don't go along with his version of things?

Paul later informs his listeners that he got his message from Jesus. Is his word sufficient? And why?

[Elijah John]

Here is Paul speaking with menace:

Galatians 1: 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God's curse! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God's curse! 10 Am I now trying to win the approval of human beings, or of God.


It seems to me he's obviously trying to win over people, not God, though that might be a secondary motive.

Does Paul have the right to call down curses on people who don't go along with his version of things?

Paul later informs his listeners that he got his message from Jesus. Is his word sufficient? And why?

No, Paul shouldn't be cursing people who disagree with him ESPECIALLY when he himself preached a "different Gospel" than did Jesus. (Where did Jesus ever preach "if you...believe in your heart that God will raise me (him) from the dead, you will be saved"? Paul seems to have added this condition to Jesus criteria for salvation, after all, Jesus said for salvation "keep the commandments" And believing in your heart that God raised him from the dead was easy enough for Paul to say, after all, he had that Damascus event, the rest of us have not been so fortunate).

Paul may well have been the protypical heretic. The Jerusalem based Ebionites and Jewish-Christians (followers of James) seemed to have regarded him as such.

Seems Paul was simply cursing his theological adversaries, and not dispayiing much Christian charity. Ironic, coming from the author of the uplifting 1 Corinthians 13.

[StuartJ]

Today's Christianities - increasingly diluted as they may be - are largely Paulian ...

And this includes the misanthropic bigotry of the first recorded - yet possibly fictional - marketing manager ...

And all the others who wrote the "Word of God" who pretended to be Saul/Paul.

Whoever it was who wrote the delightful piece quoted, has all the charismatic Christian charm of "God Hates Fags" placard wavers.

But we can see where they get their Divine Inspiration ...

Or is that their Indwelling Holy Spirit ...?

Nonetheless, I'm sure it's non-negotiable.

[tam]

Peace to you Marco,

Christians - including Paul - should not be cursing anyone. Christians should be listening to Christ. Christ taught us to bless those who curse us, to love our enemies, pray for those who persecute us. Christ did not teach us (in word or deed) to curse anyone. Interestingly, Paul also wrote 'bless and do not curse' in his letter to the Romans, having learned that from Christ.

Hence, we should be testing all things against Christ, holding all things up to the Light. Because Christ is the Teacher, the Master, the One to whom God said to listen. Not Paul. Not any other apostle or disciple or any religion (then or now). Men can and do err. Scribes also err. So whatever the error here, we can know from Christ that we are not to curse.




Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[StuartJ]

[Replying to post 4 by tam]

So whatever the error here

You've identified an error in the "Word of God" ...?

But it's the "Word of God" ...

Surely "God" inspired the real or a fake Saul/Paul to threaten curses from "God" ...?

Even though some folks think some folks who write the "Word of God" shouldn't do that.

OMG ...

Perhaps some or all of this biblical stuff isn't the Word of anyone's god after all ...?

How can we possibly tell ...?

Other than the Indwelling Holy Spirit/s.

[tam]

Peace to you,

[Replying to post 4 by tam]

So whatever the error here

You've identified an error in the "Word of God" ...?

Christ is the Word of God. I have identified no error in Him. (There is no error in Him.)

But it's the "Word of God" ...

"It" is not the Word of God. The Word of God is Christ. "He" is the Word of God.

Not the bible. Not the letters of Paul or Peter or James or anyone else. Scripture is indeed inspired (that which is given in spirit) but Christ identified scripture as Moses, the Prophets, the Psalms. (Revelation is also scripture since John was in the spirit when he received it, and he was told to write what he saw and heard). But not everything written is scripture, and even scripture is subject to the erring pen of the scribes (Jeremiah 8:8)... even just errors in copying/translation.

Surely "God" inspired the real or a fake Saul/Paul to threaten curses from "God" ...?

No.

Paul does not claim these words that he wrote to be inspired, does he?

In another letter, Paul even stated that something he wrote was from him (what he believes to be true) as opposed to something else he wrote that was from God.

Even though some folks think some folks who write the "Word of God" shouldn't do that.

I am sorry but I do not know what you are referring to with this sentence.

OMG ...

Perhaps some or all of this biblical stuff isn't the Word of anyone's god after all ...?

Christ is the Word of God.

Not everything written in the bible is accurate.

How can we possibly tell ...?

Hold all things up against the Light (Christ is the Light). Test all things against Him (His words, His deeds). Test also against love. If God is love (and He is), then what comes from Him will also be from love.

Christ cursed no one and instead asked forgiveness even for His enemies. He taught us to bless and not to curse. He rebuked His disciples for wanting to call down fire from heaven upon those who would not welcome Him into their town, telling them that they 'know know what spirit you are of'.

Other than the Indwelling Holy Spirit/s.

The (holy) spirit within us - if indeed we have received/been anointed with holy spirit (the breath, blood, seed of JAH) - may indeed bear witness to the truth, as well as protest against something false. That does not mean that one should not ask Christ or test the inspired expression. I know something is true if my Lord has taught or confirmed it to me.



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[Divine Insight]

Because Christ is the Teacher, the Master, the One to whom God said to listen.

When did God tell anyone to listen to Christ? When he supposedly spoke from the clouds?

How do you know that those rumors aren't in error?

Why should I believe that a God spoke from the clouds? If a God could speak from the clouds, or from a burning bush, or through a donkey, or whatever, then why hasn't God spoken to me? He certainly had more than ample opportunity to do so even in private if he so desired.

The bottom line is that you are basically "preaching" the Gospel rumors as though they represent truth when you say that God said to listen to Christ. You have absolutely no clue whether that religious dogma is true or not, yet here you are "preaching" it as though it represents some sort of fact.

Please show compelling reasons why anyone should believe that God spoke from the clouds, especially when you, yourself, have been proclaiming that we must hold everything up to what Christ taught. Where did Christ teach that any God spoke from the clouds? That claim amounts to nothing more than what the authors of the Gospels have proclaimed themselves.

Not only this but if there existed a God who felt it was important to humans that he should speak to them then why isn't he doing that? Why haven't we heard from this God?

It's ridiculous to expect us to believe that God would speak to the ancient Jews, but would not speak to us.

So until I actually hear a God speaking from the clouds I see absolutely no reason to believe that God told anyone to listen to Jesus. I have no reason to think that this is anything more than religious propaganda that had been created by the authors of these religious texts.

If there truly is a God who can speak to me why does he hate me so much that he refuses to do so tam?

In order for me to believe your religious preaching I would also need to believe that your God hates me. Why else would he refuse to speak to me?

This religion is an offense to any intelligent person, IMHO.

You are proclaiming that some God did something when in fact, you have absolutely NO CLUE. It's just a bunch of ancient rumors.

Give me a good reason why I should believe that some God spoke from the clouds proclaiming Jesus to be his Son.

[StuartJ]

[Replying to post 6 by tam]

But not everything written is scripture ...

You and I are definitely singing from the same karaoke screen right here ...!!!

(Which is why it should be in big, bold italics.)

Let's just stick with Marco's passage ...

And ask ourselves how we are going to determine whether or not it's scripture ...?

Because if it IS ...

Surely, Paul has every right to wave a "God Hates Fags" placard (or whatever).

But if it's NOT ...

Where should persons of faith stick their placards ...?

[StuartJ]

These good God-Hates-Fags Christians are every bit as faith-confident - I suggest - as every other Christian is, that THEIR message - just like Saul/Paul's - came from Jesus:



And ...

As I've mentioned before ...

It looks to me like when it comes to messages of faith ...

Things can mean just whatever the believer CHOOSES them to mean.

The possibly fictional Saul/Paul - and the real fake-Saul/Pauls - CHOSE meanings for messages.

And given that not a soul EVER demonstrates that ANY faith message comes from anywhere other than inside their own head ...

It's perfectly reasonable, I suggest - on rational humanist considerations - to declare the opinion that no one - including possibly fictional Apostles from Jewish sectarian propaganda - should claim that "God Hates Fags" ...

Or, you know, whatever.

[RedEye]

Here is Paul speaking with menace:

Galatians 1: 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God's curse! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God's curse! 10 Am I now trying to win the approval of human beings, or of God.

It seems to me he's obviously trying to win over people, not God, though that might be a secondary motive.

Does Paul have the right to call down curses on people who don't go along with his version of things?

Paul later informs his listeners that he got his message from Jesus. Is his word sufficient? And why?

He goes further than that:

• Galatians 5
  10 I am confident in the Lord that you will take no other view. The one who is throwing you into confusion, whoever that may be, will have to pay the penalty. 11 Brothers and sisters, if I am still preaching circumcision, why am I still being persecuted? In that case the offense of the cross has been abolished. 12 As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!

He is saying that the Judaizers (the so-called Jerusalem pillars and their supporters who he is having bitter disagreements with) should not just cut off their foreskins but go the whole way and castrate themselves! There's a nice Christian response for you.