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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 1: Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:45 pm
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The Only Solution to Humanity's Crisis : To the United Natio

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The Only Solution to Humanity's Crisis : To the United Nations


Economic and Social Council
The United Nations


Dear Mr. Alberto Padova,

Our environment and climate continue to deteriorate and neither can be solved by the Kyoto Protocol or the Paris Agreement. The only way for us to save ourselves is to completely change our traditional modes of production and life.

If we continue to follow our current production and life modes, then these eight crises will remain unresolved:
1. Overpopulation
2. Humanity's greed and lust
3. Environmental Degradation
4. Climatic Deterioration
5. Loss and waste of Resources
6. Less stable Ecological Environments
7. Refugee Problems (they will continue to increase)
8. Conflicts between Nationalities, Religions, Cultures, and Interest Groups
These problems above can only be solved by changing our traditional production and life modes. Everyone yearns for a good life, but how can it be obtained?

It will not be by preaching morality, enforcing laws and regulations, following religious precepts, redistributing money and material assistance, constant meetings and discussions of governments or even the UN, warnings and threats, or even by force. It is only by changing our production and life modes that these crises can be solved.

What kind of production and life modes should be changed?
First of all, we should break up traditional marriages and families because they are the sources of human selfishness, the birthplaces of human crises, and the headstreams of all crime and evil. They are also the curb chains which prevent us all from leading happy, joyous, free, and blessed lives, but rather make people feel anxious, miserable, and fearful.

Our mode of production should change from a pattern of possessing to one of sharing; from one of competing predatorily to one of serving each other enthusiastically.

The rest of the contents involved are too broad to discuss here, but I can offer much more information based on my experience - if the UN is interested.


How do we change nearly everyone’s traditional production and life modes?
To implement that of the New Oasis for Life as created by the Lifechanyuan.

We have been experimenting with and improving upon this mode in mainland China for nine years, and the results have been very encouraging. More than two hundred people have participated in our experiment over the past ten years and one hundred and fifty of them have resided within the New Oasis for Life for extended periods of time. The remarkable signs of this mode are that exclusive marriages and families have disappeared, supporting our elderly and rearing and educating our children have been managed well, the crime rate has dropped to zero, our members’ health has improved greatly, pollution to our local environment has dropped to near zero, and our waste of resources and carbon footprint have been reduced greatly. Our people's happiness indices have risen higher than those in any of the developed countries in the world.

There are many more advantages over the traditional production and life modes which are difficult to describe here in detail but of which we have published many written descriptions, photographic proofs, and video displays, and we want the UN to understand them in detail. We can provide a great deal of information as evidence to study and judge.


If people do not change their traditional production and life modes completely and adopt these of the New Oasis for Life as created by Lifechanyuan, then the prospect of sustained development will remain distant and uncertain.

At this juncture between our continuation as a species and our extinction, we are hopeful that the UN will send people to study and demonstrate it as soon as possible and make it a project to be put into practice as has been done by Lifechanyuan. To bring about the new models of production and life modes sooner rather than later, let people from all over the world visit, study, and experience it. In this way, humanity’s situation can change completely and our futures will be blessed and sustainable.

It is impossible to change humanity’s dangerous predicament at once and even if the brakes were applied immediately, the inertia of traditional thinking would last for decades, by which time it would be too late.

So, the best way to do this would be to build new models of production and life modes which are intuitive, that people can see and experience in person, and that can be copied and replicated everywhere. If the New Oasis for Life mode were to be repeated by millions of people, then the beautiful ideal that mankind has dreamed of for thousands of years would surely be realized.


How do we build a model of this new production and life mode?
We would establish a New Oasis for Life in mainland China, in the United States of America, or in Zimbabwe, Africa with three hundred resident members including people from various religious, cultural, national, and ethnic backgrounds under the auspices of the United Nations and implemented by Lifechanyuan.

We encourage the United Nations to persuade one or more of those three governments to agree to allow us to create a New Oasis for Life on their territory and also to allow the foreign people involved in its creation to enter and leave freely.

The place where the New Oasis for Life would be created would be chosen and financed by Lifechanyuan and purchased or leased according to existing local policies. Of course it would help if the UN could help with the funding because if they were to do so, then it would be quicker and easier to build and the new model could unfold more quickly.

It would be effortless for the UN to help us to create this model of the new production and life modes, but the benefits would be endless and would benefit many future generations, so why not put it into practice?

It is better to teach people to catch fish than to give them some fish.

If the UN turns a blind eye to my proposal and ignores it, then you will have to deal with many types of devastation everywhere for many years to come.

We look forward to positive, encouraging news from your organization.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 2: Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:01 pm
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You've lost already with a letter written like this.

To begin with you never claim that you have the "Only" solution to a problem. That not only suggests and arrogant approach, but it's also never true. Other systems of social reform will necessarily also work. There are always more than one way to solve a problem.

So if you expect to have your letter received for any consideration at all, you need to offer it as a "proposal" that you have good reasons to believe will improve the humanitarian situation on earth. And your proposal must necessarily always be open to further input and revision. Because as I say, no single person (or organization) can claim to have all the answers. In fact, anyone who makes that claim has already demonstrated a great degree of ignorance of reality.

So until you tone this down and simply offer it as productive suggestions to be taken into consideration you may as well just toss it in the trash can.

Even if your solutions are good, the sales pitch still stinks to high heaven.

No offense intended. I'm just telling you how it reads.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 3: Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:54 am
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Divine Insight wrote:

You've lost already with a letter written like this.

To begin with you never claim that you have the "Only" solution to a problem. That not only suggests and arrogant approach, but it's also never true. Other systems of social reform will necessarily also work. There are always more than one way to solve a problem.

So if you expect to have your letter received for any consideration at all, you need to offer it as a "proposal" that you have good reasons to believe will improve the humanitarian situation on earth. And your proposal must necessarily always be open to further input and revision. Because as I say, no single person (or organization) can claim to have all the answers. In fact, anyone who makes that claim has already demonstrated a great degree of ignorance of reality.

So until you tone this down and simply offer it as productive suggestions to be taken into consideration you may as well just toss it in the trash can.

Even if your solutions are good, the sales pitch still stinks to high heaven.

No offense intended. I'm just telling you how it reads.

Thanks for being frank and honest.
1. This has been sent out to the united nations to certain person.
2. Ten years ago, people have been working to prvent to deterioation of cliamte, but seems now get little effect. According to this ageda, what do you think the earth will become in the follow ten years?
3. The new production and life mode, we have put in practice and proved to be effective.
4. We have a whole theory system to support our ideal.
5. It is time to begin a new era.
You can know more about us. https://chanyuan.org/

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 4: Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:56 am
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[Replying to post 3 by ivysunday]

Your organization clearly has religious leanings. If you solution to humanity's Crisis requires that people need to believe in a God then you're already lost. It's not that people aren't willing to believe in a God, but once you bring the God concept into the picture you instantly create a situation of tribal warfare with other humans who believe in God's other than yours.

So you are already lost in any practical sense in terms of convincing anyone to follow your religion. Keep in mind that both the Christians and the Muslims are already convinced that if everyone would simply follow their religions and worship their God that would automatically solve all of humanities problems as well. So basically all your sale's pitch amounts to is proselytizing warfare. Whether you realize it or not.

Here are some videos to watch to see a practical secular approach to saving humanity. Of course this doesn't address all the problems, but I'm quite sure your proposal doesn't either unless you are suggesting that humans radically change their behavior, including overpopulation. Good luck with getting humans to take responsibility for how many people they procreate.

Also, ironically the more intelligent and educated people tend to have less offspring, while the poverty stricken uneducated people tend to reproduce like rabbits. And it's the lesser educated population you would need to change the behavior of. Good luck with that.

Anyway here's a secular solution to climate change. And sadly humans aren't even going to be doing much of this:


YouTube



YouTube


We already have solutions for the problems. The problem isn't finding solutions, the problem is getting humanity to adopt them.

Notice this solution does not require any religion, belief in any God, or anything like that. It's a purely practical solution that requires no need for any imaginary Gods.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 5: Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:56 pm
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Divine Insight wrote:

[Replying to post 3 by ivysunday]

Your organization clearly has religious leanings. If you solution to humanity's Crisis requires that people need to believe in a God then you're already lost. It's not that people aren't willing to believe in a God, but once you bring the God concept into the picture you instantly create a situation of tribal warfare with other humans who believe in God's other than yours.

So you are already lost in any practical sense in terms of convincing anyone to follow your religion. Keep in mind that both the Christians and the Muslims are already convinced that if everyone would simply follow their religions and worship their God that would automatically solve all of humanities problems as well. So basically all your sale's pitch amounts to is proselytizing warfare. Whether you realize it or not.

Here are some videos to watch to see a practical secular approach to saving humanity. Of course this doesn't address all the problems, but I'm quite sure your proposal doesn't either unless you are suggesting that humans radically change their behavior, including overpopulation. Good luck with getting humans to take responsibility for how many people they procreate.

Also, ironically the more intelligent and educated people tend to have less offspring, while the poverty stricken uneducated people tend to reproduce like rabbits. And it's the lesser educated population you would need to change the behavior of. Good luck with that.

Anyway here's a secular solution to climate change. And sadly humans aren't even going to be doing much of this:


YouTube



YouTube


We already have solutions for the problems. The problem isn't finding solutions, the problem is getting humanity to adopt them.

Notice this solution does not require any religion, belief in any God, or anything like that. It's a purely practical solution that requires no need for any imaginary Gods.

You want people to accept your solutions, didn't you see that this is the problem? The core crisis human are facing are crisis of soul.
You don't want to mention God, even if it is the truth, just because you lose your faith in religion. We are not an organization, we are just people who want to live happily by the way as we are created for. According to the Holy Bible and the Koran, Jehovah and Allah are the creators of all things in the Universe. Undoubtedly, they are the Taiji in the Chinese Taoism. Though they have different names, they are the same thing in nature.
You object us, because you do not understand us, you do not know what is Tao, what is the way of the Greatest Creator, the way of nature.
After reading below article, you might want to think it again.
--------------
The Eight Meanings of the Way of the Greatest Creator





XueFeng

(Translated by Transn and Edited by Kaer)




Lifechanyuan takes the Way of the Greatest Creator, but what is the Way of the Greatest Creator and what are its meanings?

In general, the Way of the Greatest Creator is the Tao of nature, the Way that Jesus Christ, Buddha Sakyamuni, the immortal Lao Tzu, and Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) guided people to take. The Way of the Greatest Creator has eight major meanings:



1.The universe is the product of the the consciousness of the Greatest Creator

2.Everything comes into being through its creation

3.Everything runs in the consciousness of the Way of the Greatest Creator

4.You must give play to your nature and conform to nature

5. Revering the Greatest Creator and Following the Example of the Greatest Creator​

6. Reality is the Portrayal of the Diverse Free Consciousness of LIFE

7. Happiness, Joy, Freedom, and Blessing are the Themes of LIFE

8.All is but a game





1. The universe is the product of the consciousness of the Greatest Creator​


Structure generates consciousness.
The original cosmic consciousness is Allah – Ancestor of Buddha, the Greatest Creator.
After the birth of Allah – Ancestor of Buddha, the Greatest Creator, Wuji turned into a being which had consciousness, and hence everything began to follow the consciousness of the Greatest Creator. Chaos turned into Deiform. Yin and Yang and the Four Images came into being. The universe took shape. Gradually the 20-parallel worlds and 36-Dimensional Space were formed and the appearance of time resulted from material movement. So, the universe is the product of the consciousness of the Greatest Creator. Acknowledging this is to take the Way of the Greatest Creator.




2. Everything comes into being through its creation



In the beginning, the universe was Wuji and was void. With the being of the Greatest Creator, so began creation with consciousness and the creation of the first batch of LIFE – Gods, the sun, the moon, and the stars, and then the second batch LIFE – Angels (Super Celestial Beings). Then the Gods and Angels were asked to create all things based on a “blueprint” designed by the Greatest Creator. For all the LIFE we see on earth, not only people and animals, but even the grass and bacterial microorganisms come into being through His creation. We often observe that some LIFE seems to be of natural birth and can not see its creation process. In fact they are not formed by natural birth, but as the result of the operation of the reproduction program of LIFE. Understanding this is to take the Way of the Greatest Creator.


3. Everything Runs in the Consciousness of the Greatest Creator – the Tao



​The sunrise and sunset, the ebb and flow, the blooming and fading of flowers, the changing of seasons: who arranges and controls all these things? The answer is Tao. The intercourse of a man and woman gives birth to fertilized ovum which gradually develops in the womb of the mother to eventually form a complete human body with eyes, a nose, hair, hands, and feet. After nine months pregnancy and giving birth to a child, comes infancy, childhood, youth, adulthood, old age, deterioration, and death. Who arranges and controls this? The answer is also Tao.



As long as we conduct mediations and read our revelations, we will find that everything in time and space is in the arrangement and control of Tao. Where does the Tao with the eight characteristics come from? We can ask the question this way. The normal operation of human society relies on the maintenance of constitutions, laws, rules and regulations. Where do they come from? Undoubtedly, they are developed by people.

People are operating them from behind and here is the answer. The law that maintains the effective operation of all things in the universe – Tao, was developed by the Greatest Creator. “Someone” is operating the Tao from behind. And this “someone” is the Greatest Creator. Constitutions and laws reflect the people’s consciousness; therefore, Tao reflects the consciousness of the Greatest Creator. Conversely, the consciousness of the Greatest Creator is Tao. All things move in Tao, that is, all things move in the consciousness of the Greatest Creator. Recognizing this is to take the Way of the Greatest Creator.


4. You must give play to your nature and conform to nature​



All things have Nature: mountains have mountain Nature, water has water Nature, Gods have God Nature, devils have devil Nature, people have human Nature, and beasts have beast Nature. Where do the Natures of all things come from? The answer is that the Natures of all things come from their structures. The kinds of structures determine the kinds of Natures. The structures of all things are created by the Greatest Creator. If things live and exist by their Natures, then they are following the will of the Greatest Creator. If they do not live and exist by their Natures, they are doing so against the will of the Greatest Creator.

A dog is to watch the house and guard the yard, a cat is to catch mice, and a mouse is to dig holes and steal and eat granary. Only when all things perform their own functions can the universe move in an orderly way, and only then can it meet the decree of the Greatest Creator. If things were to deviate from their natures, they would deviate from the Way of the Greatest Creator and would thus be punished by the Tao.

Take human for example. Human have to live and exist by human Nature. Were they to lose their human Nature, they would be bound to be punished. Likewise, expending or suppressing human nature is also deviating from the Way of the Greatest Creator. Let us say the Buddhist monks and nuns or the Christian priests and sisters have their innate human natures destroyed or suppressed. That would be a deviation from the Way of the Greatest Creator. Human eyes are to see, ears are to hear, and sexual organs are to procreate. If they were to be left unused, it would also be against the will of the Greatest Creator in creating them.

Roosters are created to crow, hens are created to lay eggs, and human are created to be active on the earth to please the Greatest Creator. If roosters refused to crow, hens refused to lay eggs, and human did not please the Greatest Creator, then what would be the use of the roosters, the hens, or the people? Chinese Taoists pursue magic powers and the arts, and that is not right. It is against the Way of the Greatest Creator. The things that are necessary for human’s survival and existence have been designed in structures of LIFE by the Greatest Creator, no more and no less. For instance, our eyes can only see chromatic images in the wavelengths between 400 and 700 nanometers and our hearing threshold is between 20 hertz and 20 kilohertz, and that is enough. Many Chinese practitioners work through the Du Meridian and Ren Meridian, the microcosmic and macrocosmic orbits, retreating, making plant seeds germinate from within the hands, opening the third eye, or self-refining to bring out the primordial spirit, and so on. All these practices are contrary to the Tao of nature, thus contrary to the Way of the Greatest Creator. Just as the rooster that wants to lay eggs instead of crowing or the hen that wants to crow instead of laying eggs, the results are predictable. So taking the Way of the Greatest Creator is to highlight innate natures and to follow them. “A clear-sighted mind is to perceive the natures and perceiving these natures is to attain Buddhahood.” One will never attain Buddhahood if they do not perceive natures and follow them.


5. Revering the Greatest Creator and Following the Example of the Greatest Creator​



Reverence of the Greatest Creator allows us to “Do whatever we desire to, but not to go against the rules”. If you do not revere the Greatest Creator, you will be lawless and do whatever you desire and bring harm upon yourself as a result. Therefore, revering the Greatest Creator is fully beneficial, brings no harm, and costs nothing. If you do not revere the Greatest Creator, disasters will befall you. Why should you refuse the deal with only gains but no losses?​

The Greatest Creator is love, sincerity, kindness, beauty, faith and honesty, happiness, joy, freedom, and blessing.
So we need to follow the example of the Greatest Creator. The Greatest Creator is also creation. So we should follow the example of the Greatest Creator to work and create and to get joy from labor. The Greatest Creator is also selfless dedication, so we should follow the example of the selfless dedication of the Greatest Creator and obtain blessing from selfless dedication.


6. Reality is the Portrayal of the Diverse Free Consciousness of LIFE



Consider that if you have loose bowels, you must have eaten rotten or spoiled food, and if you have a headache, you probably wore something unsuited for the weather or lacked sleep due to excessive thinking. Consider that if someone scolds you today, you might have hurt them in the past. Is that not so? If we trace the roots of our situations, pains, misfortunes, or even the disasters we encounter, they are all the results of our false consciousness and the defects in our soul.

“Good will be blessed with good and evil will be cursed with evil. If it is not repaid now, that is only because its time has not yet come. Once the time comes, it will surely be repaid”. If you want to know what you have done in the past, look at your present situation; if you want to know your future situation, watch your present words and deeds. Your consciousness determines your life environment and your survival state. Like attracts like and identical frequencies resonate. If we are nice to LIFE and nature, LIFE and nature will be nice to us. “Divine punishments, though slow, are always sure.” “Misery and happiness have no doors – if either comes, one brings it upon themselves.” If we carry out the devil’s deeds, we will become devils and if we act like beasts, we will become beasts, but if we follow the example of Buddha, then we will attain Buddhahood. “When you approach the mountain you will learn the twitter of birds; when you approach the water you will understand the freely swimming fish.” Birds of a feather flock together and like begets like.

The Greatest Creator has bestowed certain free consciousness upon us. We make the choices of what to do and what not to do. All of us are responsible for our choices. Reality is the portrayal of various free consciousness of LIFE. We have neither heaven, the earth, society, nor others to blame. If something seems wrong, it is neither with the universe nor the world, but with you. If you do not understand this, your Life is confused. If you do understand this, your Life is one that is as clear as crystal. This is the Way of the Greatest Creator.


7. Happiness, Joy, Freedom, and Blessing are the Themes of LIFE



Did the Greatest Creator create people to suffer? No, definitely not! Was it for them to fight and kill each other, contend for power, cheat on each other, conspire against each other, and to worry and be miserable? No, definitely not. The Greatest Creator created people to lead happy, joyful, free, and blessed lives.

We see the blue sky and white clouds, the blossoming of all kinds of flowers and birds twittering cheerfully. These are designed to please our minds and bodies. I guess the adults reading this have enjoyed physical love ? How does that feel? Wonderful, right? The Greatest Creator designed organs and senses to let us enjoy life. These facts prove eloquently that the Greatest Creator loves us. The Greatest Creator is compassionate and wants us to lead happy, joyful, free, and blessed lives. Therefore, happiness, joy, freedom, and blessings are the themes of LIFE. Any human activities should be carried out and preceded tightly around attaining these attributes for everyone.

We grow crops, engage in production or labour, make money, become officials, start businesses, etc. What are the ultimate purposes? Do we grow crops for the sake of growing crops, work for the sake of working, and make money for the sake of making money? Definitely not,

we do these things to achieve happy, joyful, free, and blessed lives, right? No matter what you do, regardless of your status, your identity, or your fame, as long as you possess them in your lifetime, you are on the Way of the Greatest Creator and your life is a successful and


8. All is but a game



The universe is in the condition of joy. The purpose of the Greatest Creator, creating all these things, is but a game. Everything is but a game, only LIFE is real. One cannot be too attached to things and should not possess and occupy too much. Excessive attachment and too much possession and occupation will cause you to lose the true nature of LIFE, make the game turn into the pain of fighting and killing, and turn a comedy into a tragedy.

It is not worthwhile. Life is but a dream, we need to experience lives to the fullest and live them that way. Play the game as much as you like. Enjoy it to the fullest if it is fun but give it up if it is not. Why are you so serious and so attached? Nothing is yours. The life stage is just a game. What can you keep after death? Only our consciousness is real!

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 6: Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:17 pm
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ivysunday wrote:

You don't want to mention God, even if it is the truth, just because you lose your faith in religion.


This has absolutely nothing to do with me. But it does indeed have much to do with asking people to place their "faith" in an imaginary God. Especially when there is no need to do so.


ivysunday wrote:

1.The universe is the product of the the consciousness of the Greatest Creator


Compelling credible evidence please?

Your detailed "explanation" does not provide any evidence at all. In fact, it sounds precisely like religious preaching that has nothing to back it up. In fact, you have already confessed that to believe in it requires "faith". If you had evidence for it, you wouldn't need to talk about faith.


ivysunday wrote:

2.Everything comes into being through its creation


Compelling credible evidence please?

Your detailed explanation mentions "Gods" and "Angels" but it doesn't provide any information or evidence that such things exist. You may as well have been speaking of "Fairies" and "Boogiemen". Without evidence for these things what you call them is basically irrelevant. Basically all they amount to are ill-defined labels.

ivysunday wrote:

3.Everything runs in the consciousness of the Way of the Greatest Creator


Compelling credible evidence please?

In your detailed explanation you say,"​The sunrise and sunset, the ebb and flow, the blooming and fading of flowers, the changing of seasons: who arranges and controls all these things? The answer is Tao."

What wrong with the word "Nature"? What is "Tao", but a religion ill-defined term?

Science already explains what "controls" these processes. The natural laws of physics control them. Or to be more precise. Things just do what they do because it's all the can do. There is no need to have any invisible entity "controlling" anything.

ivysunday wrote:

4.You must give play to your nature and conform to nature


Secularism already recognizes that we must conform to nature and live in harmony with nature if we wish to survive. Unfortunately it appears that much of human nature is to be ignorant of much of this and often times in denial of it.

You say:

"All things have Nature: mountains have mountain Nature, water has water Nature, Gods have God Nature, devils have devil Nature, people have human Nature, and beasts have beast Nature. Where do the Natures of all things come from? The answer is that the Natures of all things come from their structures. The kinds of structures determine the kinds of Natures. The structures of all things are created by the Greatest Creator. If things live and exist by their Natures, then they are following the will of the Greatest Creator. If they do not live and exist by their Natures, they are doing so against the will of the Greatest Creator."

Please provide compelling credible evidence for a "Greatest Creator"?

By the way, your thesis is in self-contradiction again. You claim that humans have "human nature" but then complain that you don't like human nature as it is and you wish to try to change it.

If there truly was a "Greatest Creator" who created human nature then shouldn't human nature be precisely as the Greatest Creator had created it to be?

The very fact that you feel a need to change human nature strongly suggests that you are in grave disagreement with the results of the work of the "Greatest Creator".

So your entire thesis shoots itself in its own foot.

ivysunday wrote:

5. Revering the Greatest Creator and Following the Example of the Greatest Creator​


You say, "Reverence of the Greatest Creator allows us to 'Do whatever we desire to, but not to go against the rules'."

Please provide compelling credible evidence of where we can find these rules?

You say, "The Greatest Creator is love, sincerity, kindness, beauty, faith and honesty, happiness, joy, freedom, and blessing."

What a coincident! So am I. Very Happy

A mere human secularist can be all of these things.

Moreover, where did you obtain this list of qualities of this imagined "Greatest Creator"? Again you need to provide a source of this knowledge. Just stating that you think this is what a Greatest Creator should be like is not sufficient.

ivysunday wrote:

6. Reality is the Portrayal of the Diverse Free Consciousness of LIFE


You say, "Consider that if you have loose bowels, you must have eaten rotten or spoiled food, and if you have a headache, you probably wore something unsuited for the weather or lacked sleep due to excessive thinking. Consider that if someone scolds you today, you might have hurt them in the past. Is that not so? If we trace the roots of our situations, pains, misfortunes, or even the disasters we encounter, they are all the results of our false consciousness and the defects in our soul."

Secular psychologists are fully aware of these natural cause and effect issues.

There is nothing here that points to any need for a "Greatest Creator" who created inept and poorly behaving humans. In fact, that idea is a self-contradiction. A creator who created flawed humans would not be very great at all.

ivysunday wrote:

7. Happiness, Joy, Freedom, and Blessing are the Themes of LIFE


You say, "Did the Greatest Creator create people to suffer? No, definitely not! Was it for them to fight and kill each other, contend for power, cheat on each other, conspire against each other, and to worry and be miserable? No, definitely not. The Greatest Creator created people to lead happy, joyful, free, and blessed lives."

Well, there you go. If this imaginary "Greatest Creator" did not intend for humans to turn out as they have, then this creator is not all that "Great" after all.

In this scenario where the "Greatest Creator" creates everything, there would be no excuse for anything to be unlike how the "Greatest Creator" had intended it to be.

So again, your theology is self-contradictory.

Humans cannot be blamed for having been "Failed Creations".


ivysunday wrote:

8.All is but a game


You say, "The universe is in the condition of joy. The purpose of the Greatest Creator, creating all these things, is but a game. Everything is but a game, only LIFE is real. One cannot be too attached to things and should not possess and occupy too much. Excessive attachment and too much possession and occupation will cause you to lose the true nature of LIFE, make the game turn into the pain of fighting and killing, and turn a comedy into a tragedy."

Again, your theology necessarily requires that your so-called "Greatest Creator" is not so "Great" after all. If things are so mess-up from what the "Greatest Creator" had intended then no one can be blamed for that but the "Greatest Creator" itself.

You have a self-defeating theological theme.

ivysunday wrote:

It is not worthwhile. Life is but a dream, we need to experience lives to the fullest and live them that way. Play the game as much as you like. Enjoy it to the fullest if it is fun but give it up if it is not. Why are you so serious and so attached? Nothing is yours. The life stage is just a game. What can you keep after death? Only our consciousness is real!


Excise me? Aren't you the one who is writing letters to the UN in an attempt to try to control what you have already suggested is controlled by the Tao?

If you believe the Tao is in control of everything, then why are you trying to override the Tao?

Taking control of human destiny only makes sense for secularists. Because until you recognize that we are indeed in control of our own destiny you are lost. In fact your religious message is already self-contradictory. You claim the Tao is in control of everything yet you are writing letters to the UN in hope of humans taking control of their own destiny which would be in violation of your own religious dogma.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

IMPORTANT CONCLUSION AND SUMMARY:

I'll be the first to agree that humans can indeed improve their own lives and take control of human destiny. But this is precisely because we are living in a secular world where there is no "Greatest Creator" overseeing anything.

So yes, I will totally agree that there are many things we can do to improve the course of human destiny. I may even be in agreement with many technical things you may be supporting. However, there is simply no need to bring into the mix the idea of an "failed" so called "Greatest Creator". If such a thing existed things shouldn't have failed in the first place, everything should be going along precisely as the "Greatest Creator" had planned.

~~~~~~

Finally, you do realize that this is the anti-thesis of a religion like Christianity?

In Christianity things are supposed to go horribly wrong. The whole idea is that Jesus will return for the "Rapture" where he saves the righteous and slays the defective humans that he had created. Casting the defective humans into an eternal hell fire (whatever state of existence that might entail)

So Christians are more than happy to see the coming of the end of the world. If they thought the could rush it along they'd gladly pitch in. Very Happy

They are waiting for Jesus to come and save them. In fact, to think that they could somehow save themselves or improve humanity to a heavenly state on earth would violate their entire dogma. Things are supposed to crash and burn so that when Jesus comes back he can say, "I told you so!". Evil

So your proposed religion is necessarily anti-Christ anyway. You'll necessarily have the entire Christian community against you if you claim that humans could somehow save themselves without the need for Jesus to return for the Rapture.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 7: Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:22 am
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[Replying to Divine Insight]

It is necessary to mention the Greatest Creator, because people forget where they are from and where to go, and life's purpose and the role of humanity.The Greatest Creator is the source of our Lives.
Rivers have sources and trees have roots, people have parents and Celestial Beings have ancestors. Everything has its origin and all effects have their causes. Rivers will run dry without sources, trees will wither without roots, people will scatter without parents, and Celestial Beings will fall without ancestors. Therefore, in living a Life, we have to connect our souls to their source to be clear and to gain eternity. The source of everything is the Greatest Creator, and we, our Lives within our LIFE, should always keep the Greatest Creator in mind and live in accordance with the will of the Greatest Creator. In this way, our Life can reach a wonderful destination in the end.

1. You cannot see evidence, because the evidence is not to be seen or touched. You belive in the existense of anti-matter world?
The law of the unity of opposites tells us that there is the physical world but also the spiritual, heaven but also hell, material structure but also the non-material, and the tangible human but also the intangible God. As such, our consciousness and thinking are not limited to our mortal Lives and will not be limited to the material world that we see. Our field of knowledge can expand to unlimited space and time, to the afterlife, to the nonmaterial world which we can neither see nor hear from our current place. What a remarkable leap of faith this is! Thus, as human beings, we should not only value the present, but also consider the future, not only pay attention to reality, but also consider nothingness, not only cherish life, but also pay attention to the afterlife.

2. You didn't see one, but Jesus and Sakyamni really existed. Except for the earth, Everything in our lives are created by human. So, why the earth is not created?
3. Xuefeng wrote 40 Evidences Proving The Existence Of The Greatest Creator,you can check here: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=28

4. After human were created, we were given free will. The Core Value of Human Nature are Truth, Goodness and Beauty. But as time goes by, we gradually froget it. Our telegnosis are polluted by images in nature and the values of human society and our prejudices.

5. We can fly in a plane, but we won't jump directly from a plane, because the existance of gravity.
What is the law? The law is the order or objective principle adopted by the Greatest Creator to govern the effective operation of the Universe and life. The formula in physics, molecular formula in chemistry, the equation in math, the structural formula in biology, and the casual schema in life science are all laws. All laws are Buddhism and are designed and made by the Greatest Creator.

The Greatest Creator is everything, but everthing is not the Greatest Creator. You don't have the eight featurs, so you are not the Greatest Creator.
The Greatest Creator has 8 features
1). The Greatest Creator is Unique and Exclusive​

2). The Greatest Creator is Amorphous
3). The Greatest Creator is Neutral

4). The Greatest Creator is Mysterious
5). The Greatest Creator is Impartial

6). The Greatest Creator is Merciful
7). The Greatest Creator is Supremely Powerful
You have love, but you love your families more than you do to others. You are free but you cannot get out the 3-dimentional world.
6. As i said above, you have free will, you can make choice and you are responsible for yourself. What fun if you are made that can only do what you are told to do. Angels and Buddhas and the messengers of the Greatest Creator are trying to wake up human.
7. The Greatest Creator create human while human cannot creat an ant. So who is great?
The Greatest Creator cares for the human beings by setting up the cause-effect relationship (order and procedure).
First, the Greatest Creator gives the humans beings certain degree of free will, allowing them to select on their own between light and darkness. What the Greatest Creator has given is just what we have pursued. We deserve the current situation. The Greatest Creator has neither deprived nor added anything. We are simply following the “path” made by the Greatest Creator.

8. You take it a mess, while i see it clearly. You are not here to make money, by debating with me, because you are not only your body, you are your soul.
You have conscience. Conscience is an invisible self-disciplinary moral court rooted by the Greatest Creator in the LIFE structure of man to enable man to congenitally distinguish between right and wrong and good and evil.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 8: Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:13 am
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ivysunday wrote:

It is necessary to mention the Greatest Creator, because people forget where they are from and where to go, and life's purpose and the role of humanity.The Greatest Creator is the source of our Lives.


But you have exactly zero evidence that such a thing exists. So until you can demonstrate that it exists all you have is a non-evidenced faith-based religion. A concept that is totally unnecessary.

ivysunday wrote:

1. You cannot see evidence, because the evidence is not to be seen or touched. You belive in the existense of anti-matter world?


Outside of what we can actually detect is nothing more than pure speculation. Your arguments for the existence of a afterlife, or non-physical world is uncompelling. And totally unnecessary anyway.

Notice that the secular solution to the problems of humanity work simply because they address the known problems. This is really all that his required. There is no need for pushing a religious or spiritual agenda. It's just totally unnecessary baggage. Even if it were true it would still be totally unnecessary.

ivysunday wrote:

2. You didn't see one, but Jesus and Sakyamni really existed. Except for the earth, Everything in our lives are created by human. So, why the earth is not created?


This argument fails miserably, because if everything requires a creator, then so does your "Greatest Creator". So this argument doesn't hold any water.

ivysunday wrote:

3. Xuefeng wrote 40 Evidences Proving The Existence Of The Greatest Creator,you can check here: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=28


Your link doesn't appear to point to anything other than the Random Ramblings forum in general.

Besides, if someone truly had proof of the existence of a "Greatest Creator", they should have no problem convincing the scientific community of this proof. Obviously there is no compelling proof.

ivysunday wrote:

4. After human were created, we were given free will. The Core Value of Human Nature are Truth, Goodness and Beauty. But as time goes by, we gradually froget it. Our telegnosis are polluted by images in nature and the values of human society and our prejudices.


So once again your so-called "Greatest Creator" is obviously no so great since he couldn't create decent humans who don't quickly deteriorate from his original plan.

Once again your theology shoots itself in its own foot.


ivysunday wrote:

5. We can fly in a plane, but we won't jump directly from a plane, because the existance of gravity.
What is the law? The law is the order or objective principle adopted by the Greatest Creator to govern the effective operation of the Universe and life. The formula in physics, molecular formula in chemistry, the equation in math, the structural formula in biology, and the casual schema in life science are all laws. All laws are Buddhism and are designed and made by the Greatest Creator.


Again, where's the proof of this utterly absurd claim? You clearly have no compelling proof or the scientific community would be more than happy to embrace it.


ivysunday wrote:

The Greatest Creator is everything, but everthing is not the Greatest Creator. You don't have the eight featurs, so you are not the Greatest Creator.
The Greatest Creator has 8 features
1). The Greatest Creator is Unique and Exclusive​
2). The Greatest Creator is Amorphous
3). The Greatest Creator is Neutral
4). The Greatest Creator is Mysterious
5). The Greatest Creator is Impartial
6). The Greatest Creator is Merciful
7). The Greatest Creator is Supremely Powerful
You have love, but you love your families more than you do to others. You are free but you cannot get out the 3-dimentional world.


And you have yet to show that this imaginary character that you call the Greatest Creator actually exists. You may as well be talking about pink flying unicorns.

ivysunday wrote:

6. As i said above, you have free will, you can make choice and you are responsible for yourself. What fun if you are made that can only do what you are told to do. Angels and Buddhas and the messengers of the Greatest Creator are trying to wake up human.


If humans were truly created by a "Greatest Creator" they wouldn't have fallen asleep in the first place. Lest your "Greatest Creator" would not be such a great creator after all.

You seem to keep forgetting that if your "Greatest Creator" created humans then any defects in humans can only be attributed to their creator.

ivysunday wrote:

7. The Greatest Creator create human while human cannot creat an ant. So who is great?


Just because a human cannot create an ant does not mean that a Greatest Creator exists. Again, an extremely poor argument on your part. In fact, you must necessarily be buying into these extremely weak arguments yourself since you appear to have been convinced by these weak arguments that you are now attempting to pass onto others.

ivysunday wrote:

The Greatest Creator cares for the human beings by setting up the cause-effect relationship (order and procedure).


This Greatest Creator cannot care much for humans if he has thrown them into a situation where they can fall prey to "darkness" without even being aware of it.

ivysunday wrote:

8. You take it a mess, while i see it clearly. You are not here to make money, by debating with me, because you are not only your body, you are your soul.
You have conscience. Conscience is an invisible self-disciplinary moral court rooted by the Greatest Creator in the LIFE structure of man to enable man to congenitally distinguish between right and wrong and good and evil.


If what you say here is true then I cannot being doing anything wrong by pointing out the absurdity of this concept of a "Greatest Creator". For if it were wrong for me to do this I would feel bad based on this conscience that you claim that Greatest Creator has endowed me with.

There is absolutely no need to bring a concept of an ill-defined "Greatest Creator" into the mix when addressing the problems facing humanity. All that is required is that we address the actual problems. Period.

And by the way if there is a spiritual dimension to existence and an afterlife, then this will be true no matter what humans do. In fact, if life is eternal then the entire destruction of planet earth would be totally insignificant and irrelevant to that eternal life.

In fact, only from a secular perspective is saving humanity and life on earth important.

If there is a "Greatest Creator" who can magically do anything, then whatever might happen to human physical bodies or planet earth would be totally irrelevant.

You failed to address the following:

Also, you failed to address the fact that your claim that humanity should be working on saving humanity and trying to turn earth into a heavenly paradise is in direct violation and opposition to Christianity.

Christ is suppose to return precisely because humans are being evil and Christ is going to cast the evil ones into hell and embrace the righteous ones for eternal life with him.

So no Christian is going to jump onboard your religion since you are suggesting a totally different outcome.

According to Christianity things are just as they are suppose to be. The world is supposed to become evil and self-destructive so when Jesus returns he can say, "I told you so!", and save his little flock of followers whilst casting the vast majority of humans that he had created into a lake of fire.

So the religion you are trying to sell is anti-Christ.

Christians are happy to see the world coming to an end. Very Happy

That's Yahweh's PLAN.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 9: Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:20 pm
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Quote:
[quote="Divine Insight"]
[quote="ivysunday"]

ivysunday wrote:

3. Xuefeng wrote 40 Evidences Proving The Existence Of The Greatest Creator,you can check here: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=28


Your link doesn't appear to point to anything other than the Random Ramblings forum in general.

Besides, if someone truly had proof of the existence of a "Greatest Creator", they should have no problem convincing the scientific community of this proof. Obviously there is no compelling proof.

ivysunday wrote:

Ok, my mistake. this is the right address. https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=34647
I am not capable of persuading anyone, as it need telegnosis, reading the same article, different people have different perceptions. I am not bothering myself persuading others. There is a saying “Rivers and mountains may be changed but it's hard to alter a man's nature.”

What is true nature? And why it is unchangeable?

Nature is the innate characteristic. When does nature come into being? From primary school? From the time of while in mother’s arms? Since the time of an embryo in the mother’s body? Since the time of existence in the womb? Or since the combination of the sperm and ovum?


If nature starts from the time mentioned above, there is no question of “hard to alter a man's nature”.

Then we can conclude that nature has started centuries before which is something deep-rooted, unlikely to change in a relatively short period of time.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 10: Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:10 pm
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ivysunday wrote:

I am not bothering myself persuading others.


How silly is that? Didn't you start this thread with a letter you either sent to, or would like to send to the UN?

Why bother sending this letter if you aren't trying to persuade others.

My entire reply to you thread is to simply point out that your arguments are not persuasive. Also, if you aren't trying to persuade others why bother even replying to my rejection of your arguments? Think

Let's look at some of your "evidence" for a "Greatest Creator" that you linked to in your other thread: (I'll only address the ones you've number for clarity)

ivysunday wrote:

3. The rotation of the earth is a planned arrangement and the velocity of the rotation has been accurately calculated.


Actually the rotation and arrangement of the earth could be far more efficient if it were to actually be designed purposefully.

Where is your evidence that this situation is anything more than random chance in a universe that contains over 100 billion galaxies each containing over 100 billion solar systems?

In fact, if this was done by design then when aren't their more well-organized solar systems nearby?

The argument that the universe is designed especially for human life is a very poor argument as the truth is that the vast majority of the universe is actually extremely hostile and lethal for human existence.

ivysunday wrote:

4. The earth orbits the sun and its running speed is in strict accordance with the laws of physical movement.


So? What else would you expect it to do? It's doing the only thing it can do.

ivysunday wrote:

5. The tilting of the earth is deliberately set up


Again, if the earth's position, orbit, title, etc, where perfectly designed they could actually be far better than they are providing the earth with far more consistent weather patterns than it has experienced for billions of year.

By the way, if the earth was designed specifically for humans, why did no humans exist on the earth for over 99% of the time the earth has existed? Humans are actually a very late-coming species of animal on planet earth.

ivysunday wrote:

6. The moon is the guarantee of life on earth


It may very well be true that if they earth had no moon life may not have evolved on earth. However, that doesn't mean that the moon was "planned" by some intelligent creator who chose planet earth upon which to place his extremely "late-coming" humans.

ivysunday wrote:

7. The distance between the moon and the earth allows for no deviation


Actually the orbit of the moon around the earth is indeed changing and has been changing for millions of years. So your claim that it allows for no deviation is simply false.

ivysunday wrote:

8. Great storms, typhoon, and thunder and lightning are deliberately choreographed


In that case your "Greatest Creator" is also the "Greatest Murderer" of innocent people, including women and children.

Not only this IvySunday, but where have you been?

We've already learned through science the actual cause of all these natural disasters. They are not being deliberately choreographed by gods or evil demons. Those ancient superstitions were simply wrong and have since been prove to be wrong.

So you are making ancient arguments that have long since been debunked.

In fact, I suggest that you are "buying into" ancient arguments that have long since been debunked. I hope you didn't pay the person who taught you these clearly false ancient superstitions. If you did, you might have solid legal grounds for demanding your money back. Wink

ivysunday wrote:

9. The whole solar system has been set up especially for man


And this is why man didn't appear on the planet for over 4 billion years? Think

Sorry, but like I say, whoever taught you these things is taking you for a ride.

I hope they aren't taking your money too!

I'm not going to go through the rest of the thread, I think it's obvious already that the arguments you are parroting have long since been shown to be false.

"8. Great storms, typhoon, and thunder and lightning are deliberately choreographed "

If you still believe that one today in 2018 I just don't know what to say to you. We know this ancient superstition if clearly false.

If these are your arguments for a "Greatest Creator" then you have no arguments.

Keep in mind that even if #8 were true this would require that your "Greatest Creator" is also the "Greatest Murderer" of totally innocent people including innocent women and children.

So you aren't doing yourself any favor by keeping #8 on your list.

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