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Harold Watson
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 3:42 pm  Revelation Chapter 12 Reply with quote

The early Catholic Church certainly conspired to manipulate and in many cases destroy scriptures that foretold of another prophet to come after Jesus. If they could have understood revelation at the time, they would definitely not let this pass. (sorry, you will have to be somewhat versed in Bible prophecy to follow this, something I highly recommend becoming. For a good intoduction, watch Walter Veith's lectures "The mists of time" and "The Man behind the Mask")

In Revelation Chapter 12 we are presented with the Image of a Woman in pains to give birth. This is clearly accepted as the righteous church of God about to produce a Prophet.
We have several clues as to how to place the events of this Chapter in the timeline of history. First is that the Dragon standing before her that want to devour her child is seven headed, ten horned and seven crowned. It is accepted that this beast is a representation of the Roman empire after it is divided into ten. And, because the crowns are only seven, the 3 divisions that the Little Horn Power of Daniel Chapter 7 are to pluck out from the roots, must have already been plucked. This gives us a date of after 538 AD when the Ostrogoths were destroyed.
This fits perfectly with the second clue as to the time period in Question. Once the male child is born, the Righteous Church (the woman) is relocated to the Desert (or wilderness) for the Times, time and a half a time, or 1260 prophetic years. This time period both from Daniel and Revelation is well established as referring to the period from 538 AD to 1798, while the Beast of the Holy Roman Empire ruled.
Continuing to borrow on the symbolism of Daniel to interpret Revelation, we set up the Statue of King Nebuchadnezzar's dream (Which represents the Non-Abrahamic empires from Babylon to Rome) next to the Woman of Rev 12, interpreted as the Righteous religious community of God. Standing next to one another we can see the time periods set before us from the Time of Babylon to the the fall of Rome when Rome was divided into ten. The Golden head of Babylon is across from the 12 stars around the Woman's head. These are often considered the 12 tribes of Israel and therefore Judaism. Then across from the shoulders hips and legs of Medo-Persia, Greece and Pagan Rome, the Woman is clothed in the Sun. This is often simply interpreted as pure teachings of God, but would be centered on the time of Jesus Christ. Then Across from the feet and 10 toes of the statue we see under the Woman's feet: the Moon.
So To put this all together, what prophet, destined to rule with a an iron rod would come in the desert in the time period after 538 AD and be represented by the symbol of the Moon? Of course this is Mohammed.
And of course this perfectly explains the meaning of the rest of Revelation Chapter 12. "15-Then from his mouth the serpent spewed water like a river (sends Crusaders (water referring to people)) to overtake the woman(Islam) and sweep her away with the torrent."
"17-Then the dragon (Anitchrist-UnHoly Roman Empire) was wroth with the Woman(Islam) and went off to make war against the rest of her offspring—those who obey God's commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus. (Righteous Jews and Protestant Christians)
The fact that the Dragon had to leave off attacking the woman clearly shows that the Jews and Christians were not considered part of this Woman, but rather the remnant of her seed…

Q 2:62 Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 11: Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:01 am
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Whom Jesus will raise up from graves the last time !?

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Yusef wrote:

In Revelation Chapter 12 we are presented with the Image o
Book of Revelation of Yuhanna says: chapter12:
Now a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars
It's clearly the lady Fatima ta AlZahraa[S.A.A] and her children 12 Imams whom we Shia/Muslims believe.
The woman/daughter of the Prophet[S.A.W.A] whom were martyred by umar ibn khattab the second caliph of sunni/muslims..
One who we have hadith that: "..the best women of the paradise are 4 persons: Asieh wife of pharaoh of the time of Prophet Musa[pbuh], Maryam[S.A.A] mother of Prophet Jesus[pbuh], Fatimah[S.A.A] daughter of Prophet Muhammad[S.A.A.W.A], Khadijah[S.A.A], wife of the Prophet.
One who said to her husband Ali[pbuh] that don't let anyone know where be my grave..
And the Son who the dragon was decided eat, he is Mahdi the Savior who will appear with Prophet Jesus and Prophets Daniel, Elijah, Khezr, John, the 7 sleepers, 40 high-rank spirituals of Bani-Israel, and 313 fighters, plus 10,000 believers around the world[pbuth all]
and the dragon and satans etc, are someone including Suffyani, and everyone who were/are/will be enemy of AhlulBayit[pbut] of including non-Shia muslims
Gospel of John
6:40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”

Again The Connection
ref: http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=926469#926469

Well,
An other link/connection/keywords of crossword:
Who these 40 spirituals are!!? Study
I quoted here:
https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=946271#946271

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 12: Fri Dec 28, 2018 4:12 pm
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Who hold the testimony of Jesus

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🔠》》 Again The Connection/Keyword for Crossword 《《🔡🔢🅰🅱 wrote:
Revelation 12:17
Then the dragon was angry with the woman, and went off to make war on the rest of her children, those who keep the commandments of God and hold the testimony of Jesus.
Qur'an 16:43
And We sent not before you except men to whom We revealed [Our message]. So ask [Ahl-Al-Zikr]the people of the message if you do not know.


Hadith of Shi'a/Islam
These AhluzZikr in the Qur'an 16:43 are we 12 Imams


Well,
What these her children means the Twelver have brought about testimony of Jesus[pbuh] what before them anybody hasn't ever brought even among the same Christian scholars!!? Study
I point some of them in the same forum:
* Jesus lived among Bani-Israel like poorest people:
ref: Re: Kingdom vs Republican

* Jesus wasn't crucified by Pharisees:
ref: Judas Iscariot EVIL or HOLY !!?

* 40 Priests who had Faith about Jesus and will be resurrected by him at the End Time:
ref: Faith Vs Deeds

* The most dangerous illness that Jesus couldn't heal:
ref: Very simple self foolishness test

* 7 the famous and the worst persons of Hell:

Ghabil son of Adam, king Nimrud enemy of Abraham, Pharaoh, Samiri of Moses, Bolos who converted people to worshipping Jesus, Abubakr and Umar[the first and second← caliphs of muslims, one was been such as Samiri and invited muslims to worship one other whom was such as the golden calf of Samiri] whom converted people to Atheism, Zoroastrianism, Christianity, Sufism, Communism[means these 2 persons made hatred of Islam]
→ NOTICE:
I saw many times the phrase "the first and second" in the New Testament! And it...

Look! I was read whole the OT/NT in the past, but nothing was gotten from them while I read the Ahadith! And since I came toward the OT/NT for Second time, Then was when i could realize what within OT/NT have written!!
Exact the same Crossword that i brought as Example!
Exact such as that that first of all we look at The Raws Questions SURFACING!
then the Columns surfacing and quickly..
Then begin tge Rows carefully and bit by bit! Because in that time we have filled several tables of the Crossword!

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 13: Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:39 pm
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7 the worst persons of hell

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Yusef wrote:
...
* 7 the famous and the worst persons of Hell:
Ghabil son of Adam, king Nimrud enemy of Abraham, Pharaoh, Samiri of Moses, Bolos who converted people to worshipping Jesus, Abubakr and Umar[the first and second← caliphs of muslims, one was been such as Samiri and invited muslims to worship one other whom was such as the golden calf of Samiri] whom converted people to Atheism, Zoroastrianism, Christianity, Sufism, Communism[means these 2 persons made hatred of Islam]
→ NOTICE:
I saw many times the phrase "the first and second" in the New Testament! And it...
...!
Qur'an 74:27
And said, "This is not but magic imitated [from others]. (24)
This is not but the word of a human being." (25)
I will drive him into Saqar. (26)
And what can make you know what is Saqar? (27)
It lets nothing remain and leaves nothing [unburned], (28)
Blackening the skins. (29)
Over it are nineteen [angels]. (30)


Hadith of Shia/Islam
...inside the Hell there is a Valley and in that there is a Mount, and in that an Well/Pit that is Saqar and within that there is a Snack/Anaconda/Serpent that within that there is a Box that
7 the worst persons are in that:
5 of olden,
Cain, Nimrod, Pharaoh, Paul, and Samiri[whom those fool jews who think it was Aaron(pbuh) Na'udhuBllah may God Forgive and Guide us]
2 of this nation
Abubakr and Umar.

And Nimrod and Pharaoh, 2 Taghuts
ref: http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=945888#945888

And Samiri, Paul, Abubakr, Umar. These are 4 Satans including the satans who usually come after Prophets and deceive believers and make them astray and send them to hell fire
ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umar_at_Fatimah%27s_house

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 14: Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:35 pm
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The 7 worst persons of hell

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Yusef wrote:

Yusef wrote:
...
* 7 the famous and the worst persons of Hell:
Ghabil son of Adam, king Nimrud enemy of Abraham, Pharaoh, Samiri of Moses, Bolos who converted people to worshipping Jesus, Abubakr and Umar[the first and second← caliphs of muslims, one was been such as Samiri and invited muslims to worship one other whom was such as the golden calf of Samiri] whom converted people to Atheism, Zoroastrianism, Christianity, Sufism, Communism[means these 2 persons made hatred of Islam]
→ NOTICE:
I saw many times the phrase "the first and second" in the New Testament! And it...
...!


Qur'an 74:27
And said, "This is not but magic imitated [from others]. (24)
This is not but the word of a human being." (25)
I will drive him into Saqar. (26)
And what can make you know what is Saqar? (27)
It lets nothing remain and leaves nothing [unburned], (28)
Blackening the skins. (29)
Over it are nineteen [angels]. (30)


Hadith of Shia/Islam
...inside the Hell there is a Valley and in that there is a Mount, and in that an Well/Pit that is Saqar and within that there is a Snack/Anaconda/Serpent that within that there is a Box that
7 the worst persons are in that:
5 of olden,
Cain, Nimrod, Pharaoh, Paul, and Samiri[whom those fool jews who think it was Aaron(pbuh) Na'udhuBllah may God Forgive and Guide us]
2 of this nation
Abubakr and Umar.
Qur'an Surah 20
SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
20:96 He[Samiri] said, "I saw what they did not see, so I took a handful [of dust] from the track of the messenger and threw it, and thus did my soul entice me."

20:97 Play Copy
SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
[Moses] said, "Then go. And indeed, it is [decreed] for you in [this] life to say, 'No contact.' And indeed, you have an appointment [in the Hereafter] you will not fail to keep. And look at your 'god' to which you remained devoted. We will surely burn it and blow it into the sea with a blast.

Quote:
And Nimrod and Pharaoh, 2 Taghuts
ref: http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=945888#945888

And Samiri, Paul, Abubakr, Umar. These are 4 Taghuts and Satans including the satans who usually come after Prophets and deceive believers and make them astray and send them to hell fire
ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umar_at_Fatimah%27s_house
Qur'an Surah 2
SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
2:165 And [yet], among the people are those who take other than Allah as equals [to Him]. They love them as they [should] love Allah . But those who believe are stronger in love for Allah . And if only they who have wronged would consider [that] when they see the punishment, [they will be certain] that all power belongs to Allah and that Allah is severe in punishment.
2:166 Play Copy
SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
[And they should consider that] when those who have been followed disassociate themselves from those who followed [them], and they [all] see the punishment, and cut off from them are the ties [of relationship],
2:167 Play Copy
SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
Those who followed will say, "If only we had another turn [at worldly life] so we could disassociate ourselves from them as they have disassociated themselves from us." Thus will Allah show them their deeds as regrets upon them. And they are never to emerge from the Fire.
Hadith of Shi'a
These verses of Qur'an are about the first and second, Abubakr and Umar they were infidels whom didn't worship God even a moment, and agreed Islam just for they heard from Jews that the Prophet will come among Arab and will be won versus Arabs therefore they got avarice for kingdom... any sin/killing/terrorism/astray do from they till day the resurrection, they both are guilty and people's sins will be written to these both

Also many parts of Qur'an that say about polytheism/christians, it's interpretation is about those who are followers of Abubakr, Umar, Uthman instead of Ali[pbuh]

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 15: Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:29 pm
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companions of the saviour

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Yusef wrote:

JoeyKnothead wrote:

From the OP:

Quote:

!! The Angry Messiah Vs The Peaceful !!
We wana understand which one of the Messiahs of the religions/beliefs is more useful than others to us!

Please don't include me in that "we" there.

Quote:

1- The Mashihh(a.s): One who is the saviour for Jews..
Well, he is just for the Jews; So what happenings will be upon others??

You might wanna ask the Christians about this.

Quote:

2- Jesus(a.s): One who is the peaceful saviour for all of the people of the first to the end..

Matthew 10:34 wrote:

Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

I'll leave the remainder of the preaching alone for now.
Aha Okaayyy very well Angel

Well,
It's good if we analyze how/quality of coming the team of the Saviour!

Yusef wrote:

Yusef wrote:

🔠》》 Again The Connection/Keyword for Crossword 《《🔡🔢🅰🅱 wrote:
Revelation 12:17
Then the dragon was angry with the woman, and went off to make war on the rest of her children, those who keep the commandments of God and hold the testimony of Jesus.
Qur'an 16:43
And We sent not before you except men to whom We revealed [Our message]. So ask [Ahl-Al-Zikr]the people of the message if you do not know.
Hadith of Shi'a/Islam
These AhluzZikr in the Qur'an 16:43 are we 12 Imams

Ref: http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=948084#948084
Hadith of Shi'a
Once we and the 5th Imam, Muhammad al-Bagher(pbuh) and the 6th Imam, Ja'far As-Sadiq(pbuh), we were in Arafah[Hajj] and saw a Masked Man came to us and took us a corner and put his hand on head of Ja'far As-Sadiq and said: "peace and blessing be upon you o' true Vasy of God on the earth!"
- then said: do I ask you or you ask me?
- answered: both
- Then said: "answer everything that is in your heart not your tongue"
- God Doesn't Look at the heart which has 2 different science!
- Yeah! It was a part of my question!
Then reply how/where from we get that single true science!?

- From Ausya[Vasys] that we are the same[the same Joshua to Moses]
- How/From where they get the science!?
- From the same where the Prophets were gotten with this difference that they saw and heard, but we just hear!
May you were among companions of Al-Mahdi and would saw how the Angels are punishing infidels between earth and heaven by swords of Al-e-Dawud[generation of David] and engage these live infidels to those..
* Then the Masked Man took out his mask and took his sword out and said:
- "I'm one of them! And I am Eliyas[Elijah]! and I knew all these things and you both knew all these things, but I came to you to these followers write this hadith and in the future be hopefully to your Shi'as"
Then we saw he been hidden/disappeared/vanished!!
Well,

    Prophet Iliyas[Elijah],
    Prophet Yahya[John the Baptist],
    Prophet Khedhr[teacher of Moses],
    Prophet Daniel,
    Prophet Isa[Jesus]
    The 7 Sleepers
Peace be upon them all.

Hadhrat Ali(pbuh) said: "....he[Mahdi] sends one of them[7sleepers] with name "Telmikhah" to battle versus Roma and he returns back, then sends one other, "Hemlahah" then he will be won"

Well,
Why will become the battle between army of the Saviour and Rome!?
Because King of Rome lets the Sufyani to enter to Qustantaniyah[Istanbul]
Sufyani: http://www.imamiyya.com/hadith/qiyam/the-sufyani

Well,
Now you have been award that,
Then you can be against these deeds/behaviours and make that Bada' even make Bada' about the Armageddon and even any satanic war!! even the 3rd world war!
What the Bada' is: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=35216


One other decoding OT/NT/Qur'an from the 12Decoders ref:
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=953707#953707 Is God Like Man!!?

The greatest Debate of history:
Imam Redha Vs Atheist, Buddhist, Zoroastrian, Exilarch, Catholicos, Mandaean, Sunnies
https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=35089

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 16: Thu Feb 14, 2019 5:53 am
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The Dragon & 2 beasts = Sufyani & Abubakr and Umar

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Yusef wrote:

Yusef wrote:

Yusef wrote:
...
* 7 the famous and the worst persons of Hell:
Ghabil son of Adam, king Nimrud enemy of Abraham, Pharaoh, Samiri of Moses, Bolos who converted people to worshipping Jesus, Abubakr and Umar[the first and second← caliphs of muslims, one was been such as Samiri and invited muslims to worship one other whom was such as the golden calf of Samiri] whom converted people to Atheism, Zoroastrianism, Christianity, Sufism, Communism[means these 2 persons made hatred of Islam]
→ NOTICE:
I saw many times the phrase "the first and second" in the New Testament! And it...
...!


Qur'an 74:27
And said, "This is not but magic imitated [from others]. (24)
This is not but the word of a human being." (25)
I will drive him into Saqar. (26)
And what can make you know what is Saqar? (27)
It lets nothing remain and leaves nothing [unburned], (28)
Blackening the skins. (29)
Over it are nineteen [angels]. (30)


Hadith of Shia/Islam
...inside the Hell there is a Valley and in that there is a Mount, and in that an Well/Pit that is Saqar and within that there is a Snack/Anaconda/Serpent that within that there is a Box that
7 the worst persons are in that:
5 of olden,
Cain, Nimrod, Pharaoh, Paul, and Samiri[whom those fool jews who think it was Aaron(pbuh) Na'udhuBllah may God Forgive and Guide us]
2 of this nation
Abubakr and Umar.
Qur'an Surah 20
SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
20:96 He[Samiri] said, "I saw what they did not see, so I took a handful [of dust] from the track of the messenger and threw it, and thus did my soul entice me."

20:97 Play Copy
SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
[Moses] said, "Then go. And indeed, it is [decreed] for you in [this] life to say, 'No contact.' And indeed, you have an appointment [in the Hereafter] you will not fail to keep. And look at your 'god' to which you remained devoted. We will surely burn it and blow it into the sea with a blast.

Quote:
And Nimrod and Pharaoh, 2 Taghuts
ref: http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=945888#945888

And Samiri, Paul, Abubakr, Umar. These are 4 Taghuts and Satans including the satans who usually come after Prophets and deceive believers and make them astray and send them to hell fire
ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umar_at_Fatimah%27s_house
Qur'an Surah 2
SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
2:165 And [yet], among the people are those who take other than Allah as equals [to Him]. They love them as they [should] love Allah . But those who believe are stronger in love for Allah . And if only they who have wronged would consider [that] when they see the punishment, [they will be certain] that all power belongs to Allah and that Allah is severe in punishment.
2:166 Play Copy
SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
[And they should consider that] when those who have been followed disassociate themselves from those who followed [them], and they [all] see the punishment, and cut off from them are the ties [of relationship],
2:167 Play Copy
SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
Those who followed will say, "If only we had another turn [at worldly life] so we could disassociate ourselves from them as they have disassociated themselves from us." Thus will Allah show them their deeds as regrets upon them. And they are never to emerge from the Fire.
Hadith of Shi'a
These verses of Qur'an are about the first and second, Abubakr and Umar they were infidels whom didn't worship God even a moment, and agreed Islam just for they heard from Jews that the Prophet will come among Arab and will be won versus Arabs therefore they got avarice for kingdom... any sin/killing/terrorism/astray do from they till day the resurrection, they both are guilty and people's sins will be written to these both

Also many parts of Qur'an that say about polytheism/christians, it's interpretation is about those who are followers of Abubakr, Umar, Uthman instead of Ali[pbuh]

Woww!!
According to these Connection between
    * Revelation of Yuhanna,
    * Verses of Qur'an,
    * Ahadith of Shi'a
    * And a short story of other chapters of Revelation except 12 that I read in the Wikipedia about The Dragon and 2 beasts
    * And this short event/story about history of Islam which i bring now,

You can put these 3 personalities in the tables of those unknown personalities(Dragon & 2 beasts) and test them on the Crossword!!

Shi'a/Hadith: "...Abu-Sufiyan told Abubakr and Umar: Keep the kingdom among our own tribes that certainly there isn't any god nor resurrection day.. keep that among ourselves such as the ball and pass that together"

A very short history of Islam
The Truth was Prophethood of Muhammad, then Ali, then 11 other Imams(pbu them)
But Umar made a Republican and invited people to choose Abubakr,
Therefore after the Prophet(S.A.A.W.A) was been these satanic governments untill now:
    1- Abubakr,
    2- Umar,
    3- Uthman,
    Then Ali(pbuh)
    4- Mu'awiyah and Bani-Ummayyah
    5- Banni-Al-Abass....



A few months prior to The Prophet's death, at a place known as Ghadir Khumm, the Islamic prophet Muhammad gathered all the Muslims who were with him and delivered a long sermon. The sermon included the famous statement, "to whomsoever I am Mawla, Ali is also their Mawla." After the end of the sermon, the Muslims were commanded to pledge allegiance to Ali. According to both Shia and Sunni sources, Abu Bakr, Umar, and Uthman were all among the many who pledged allegiance to Ali at the event of Ghadir Khumm.[4][5][6][7][8]

Muhammad passed away a few months after the event of Ghadir Khumm. As Ali buried Muhammad and led his funeral prayer, a group of Muslims gathered at Saqifa. At Saqifa, Umar pledged allegiance to Abu Bakr,[9][10] despite the sermon that the Prophet had delivered at Ghadir Khumm, and despite Umar's pledge of allegiance to Ali. A group of Muslims supported Abu Bakr, and became known as the Sunni; another group of Muslims kept their allegiance to Ali and became known as the Shia.

Well,
QUESTION FOR DEBATE
ARE SUFYANI, ABUBAKR, UMAR THE SAME DRAGON AND 2 BEASTS OF REVELATION!?

According to correct connection between Revelation/Qur'an/Hadith/History:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umar_at_Fatimah%27s_house

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 17: Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:25 am
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It's been discovered whom are Dragon, 2 Beasts, Altar/Lamb!!

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Hi dear non-fools and non-blinded.

I saw last day it's narration was been edited and I have to copy/paste here.
Then you'll realize that the 4 personalities of:
    1) The Dragon
    2) the first Beast,
    3) the second Beast,
    4) the Altar/Lamb


These are exact the same:



Umar at Fatimah's house
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Umar at Fatimah's house refers to the event where Umar and his supporters went to the house of Fatimah, the daughter of the prophet Muhammad, in order to get the allegiance of Ali and his followers after the Saqifah assembly chose Abu Bakr as caliph. This event has been recorded in both Shia and Sunni books. According to Shia beliefs it is said to be the cause of Fatimah's miscarriage of Muhsin ibn Ali,[1][2] as well as Fatimah's death shortly after.[3]

Background

Succession to Muhammad
Main article: Succession to Muhammad
See also: The event of Ghadir Khumm and Saqifa
A few months prior to his death, at a place known as Ghadir Khumm, the Islamic prophet Muhammad gathered all the Muslims who were with him and delivered a long sermon. The sermon included the famous statement, "to whomsoever I am Mawla, Ali is also their Mawla." After the end of the sermon, the Muslims were commanded to pledge allegiance to Ali. According to both Shia and Sunni sources, Abu Bakr, Umar, and Uthman were all among the many who pledged allegiance to Ali at the event of Ghadir Khumm.[4][5][6][7][8]

Muhammad passed away a few months after the event of Ghadir Khumm. As Ali buried Muhammad and led his funeral prayer, a group of Muslims gathered at Saqifa. At Saqifa, Umar pledged allegiance to Abu Bakr,[9][10] despite the sermon that the Prophet had delivered at Ghadir Khumm, and despite Umar's pledge of allegiance to Ali. A group of Muslims supported Abu Bakr, and became known as the Sunni; another group of Muslims kept their allegiance to Ali and became known as the Shia.

Fadak
Fadak was a garden oasis in Khaybar, a tract of land in northern Arabia; it is now part of Saudi Arabia. Situated approximately 140 km (87 mi) from Medina, Fadak was known for its water wells, dates, and handicrafts. The Prophet Mohammed had found out that the people of Fadak had collected in order to fight the Muslims alongside the Khaybar Jews. Therefore, he sent Ali to them.[11] The people of Fadak surrendered without a fight, and pleaded for a peace treaty in exchange for giving away half their land and wealth to Mohammed.[12]

Fadak became Muhammad’s private property, as there was no Muslim fighters involved in Fadak to share the booty with. Mohammed gave the wealth away to orphans and also used it to finance the marriage of needy young men.[13][14][15] After Muhammad's death, Abu Bakr confiscated Fatima's share in Fadak that this confiscation continued in Umar up era, the reason for this work, was that Fadak had been assigned to needs and emergencies of Muhammad and now it was just accessible for the ruler of Muslims. According to Madelung, Umar's saying about the communal property of Muslims in Fadak may be challenging since Abu Bakr made a gift from his share to his daughter Aiesha.[16][17][18]

Event

After the gathering at Saqifa, Umar and his supporters went to the house of Fatimah; Ali, his family (including Fatimah), and some of his supporters (such as Ammar ibn Yasir, Abu Dhar al-Ghifari, Miqdad ibn Aswad, Salman al-Farsi, Ibn Abbas, al-Abbas, Utbah ibn Abi Lahab, Bara Ibn Azib, Ubay ibn Ka'b, Sa`d ibn Abi Waqqas, Talha and Zubayr ibn al-Awam) were in the house.[19][20][21][22][23][24] Umar went to the door of Fatimah's house and said, "By Allah, I shall burn down (the house) over you unless you come out and give the oath of allegiance (to Abu Bakr)."[25][26][27][28][29] Zubayr ibn al-Awam, who had been in Ali's house, came out of the house with his sword drawn but reportedly tripped on something, after which Umar's supporters attacked him.[30][31][32][33]

Umar, who was then in front of the door to Fatimah's house, said to Fatimah, "I know that the Prophet of God did not love anyone more than you, but this will not stop me from carrying out my decision. If these people stay in your house, I will burn the door in front of you."[34][35] According to another narration, Umar asked for wood, and then told those inside the house, "I swear by Allah who has my soul in his hand, that if you do not come out, I will burn the house." Umar was then informed that Fatimah was inside the house, to which he responded, "So what! It doesn’t matter to me who is in the house."[36][37][38]

It is reported that when Fatimah heard the voices of Umar and his supporters threatening to attack the house, she cried out, "O father, O Messenger of Allah, how are Umar Ibn al-Khattab and Abu Bakr Ibn Abi Quhafah treating us after you and how do they meet us."[4]

The house was then attacked.[39] Umar and his supporters burned the door of the house; they crushed Fatimah between the door and the wall of the house, they killed Moshin, the baby in her stomach, and they forced Ali out of the house against his will.[40][41] According to some narrations, a rope was tied around Ali's neck.[42][43][44][45][46][47]

The famous historian Abul Hasan Ali Ibn al-Husayn al-Mas’udi wrote the following in his book Isbaat al-Wasiyyah:

They surrounded ‘Ali (as) and burned the door of his house and pulled him out against his will and pressed the leader of all women (Hadhrat Fatimah (sa)) between the door and the wall killing Mohsin (the male-child she was carrying in her womb for six months).

Umar and his companions dragged Ali away. Fatimah urged them to stop, saying, "I will not permit Ali (a.s.) to be dragged with such cruelty and injustice. Woe be upon you, O people! How soon did you usurp our rights in relation to Allah and His Prophet (s.a.w.)." Umar then ordered Qunfuz to whip Fatimah. According to some narrations, Qunfuz whipped her back and her arms;[48] according to another, he struck her face;[49] according to another, he pushed her so hard that he smashed her ribs.[42] According to another report, Khalid bin Walid struck Fatimah with his sword; another report states that Moghayrah Ibne’ Sho’bah struck her with his sword.[42]

Narration of the event in Sunni historical books
Tarikh al-Tabari
The Sunni historian Muhammad ibn Jarir al-Tabari, in his Tarikhlink writes:

Umar Ibn al-Khattab came to the house of Ali. Talhah and Zubayr and some of the immigrants were also in the house. Umar cried out: "By God, either you come out to render the oath of allegiance, or I will set the house on fire." al-Zubair came out with his sword drawn. As he stumbled (upon something), the sword fell from his hand so they jumped over him and seized him."

— 30px, 30px, al-Tabari
Al-Iqd ul-Fareed (Ibn Abd Rabboh)
Ibn Abed Rabboh, in his book Al-Iqd ul-Fareed(link), writes:

As for Ali, Abbas and Zubair, they stayed in the house of Fatima until Abu Bakr sent Umar to get them out of Fatima's house and told him: if they refuse, fight them. He took a torch to burn the house and Fatima met him and told him: are you here to burn our house? He said: yes, or you enter what the Ummah has entered (i.e swear allegiance).[50]

Aftermath

Fatimah's displeasure
Both Shia and Sunni sources agree that, on a number of occasions, Muhammad had said, "Fatimah is a part of me. Whoever makes her angry, makes me angry." This has been recorded in both Sahih Bukhari (Arabic-English, Volume 5, Traditions 61 and 111) and Sahih Muslim (in the section on the virtues of Fatimah, Volume 4, pages 1904-1905), two of the most important Hadith books to Sunnis. It is also recorded in Sahih Bukhari Chapter of "The battle of Khaibar", Arabic-English, v5, tradition #546, pp 381–383, also v4, Tradition #325) that Fatimah was angry with Abu Bakr and did not speak to him before she died.

Fatimah is also reported to have said, according to Sunni sources, about Abu Bakr and Umar, "I take Allah and the angels to be my witness that you have not pleased me; on the other hand, you have angered me. When I shall meet the Prophet (S) I will complain about you two."[51]

Fatimah's death
According to a number of sources, Fatimah was killed as a result of injuries sustained when her house was attacked and burned by Umar.[52][53][54][55] She died between 75 and 95 days after the death of Muhammad.[56][57][58][59][60][61] Jafar Shahidi confirmed the burning house event. According to many Muslim historians and scholars, including the likes of the Sunni Tabari and the Shia Morteza Motahhari, Fatimah asked Ali to bury her at night to ensure none of her enemies participated in her funeral.[62]

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 18: Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:54 am
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It's been discovered whom are Dragon, 2 Beasts, Altar/Lamb!!

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Qur'an 2
2:255 Allah! There is no god ˹worthy of worship˺ except Him, the Ever-Living, All-Sustaining. Neither drowsiness nor sleep overtakes Him. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. Who could possibly intercede with Him without His permission? He ˹fully˺ knows what is ahead of them and what is behind them, but no one can grasp any of His knowledge—except what He wills ˹to reveal˺. His Seat 1 encompasses the heavens and the earth, and the preservation of both does not tire Him. For He is the Most High, the Greatest. 2

2:256 Let there be no compulsion in religion, for the truth stands out clearly from falsehood. 1 So whoever renounces Taghuts and believes in Allah has certainly grasped the firmest, unfailing hand-hold. And Allah is All-Hearing, All-Knowing.

2:257 Allah is the Guardian of the believers—He brings them out of darkness and into light. As for the disbelievers, their guardians are Taghuts who lead them out of light and into darkness. It is they who will be the residents of the Fire. They will be there forever.


Shia/Hadith
The greatest Tawaghit are Abubakr and Umar, then any non-Messengers ALSO any flag means all types of ISIS, Taliban, Alqa'idah, Bokoharam, etc.. PLUS [maybe any religious government- such as iran and afghanistan and iraq(maybe/i don't know 100%)] before rising Sufyani & Khurasani & Yemeni
What the Taghut is: ref:Fear if we were among Enemies of God and change ourselves to Friends of God

Question for Debating:
Is the 4 personality [Dragon/First Beast/Second Beast/ and Altar] the same [Sufyani/Abubakr/Umar/ and Hussain]!?
Study
we should put these 4 personalities in the Crossword Table and test them as those 4 Personality..
I will do also at the first time i have free.. God Willing

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 19: Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:10 pm
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Woman dragon 2 beasts Altar Lamb

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See dear non-fool friends,
If you wanna make the tables of the Crossword Table,
You should assume everyone's opinions about everything is right,
And test them on the Crosswords Tables!

And know that the Crossword Table is LOGARITHMIC! not linear!
Means any door of science you open, then after that opens two or more doors!

But if you keep yourself in foolishness and don't test any other opinions in the tables,
Then you will stay and breaked on the center of The Greatest infinity Circular Crosswords Table!
And won't move and won't get any additional information/knowledge

Well,
My job is industrial and i'm very busy..
But i'm sure 100% about the Connection between these personalities
And ask you yourselves test them..
How!?
Well, When you replace a personality within any row/column table, you should look at around and analyze other Connections around the same Test-Replaced

For example:
You assume my opinion about these personalities is true,

Well,
You should Check Date of history about that and compare with the history!

Then you will realize that EXACTLY these Connections are correct!
Bible|Qur'an|Shi'a Hadith|History(Date and Timeline):
    Abubakr = the first beast
    Umar = the second beast
    Abi-Sufyan or his generation Sufyani = Dragon
    Imam Hussain = Altar
    Fatimah = Woman
    Muhammad = Sun
    Ali = Moon
    12 Imams of Shi'a = 12 Stars and Blessed Olive also in Qur'an
    Al-Mahdi = Son of the Woman


These are harmonized with each other in all: Bible/History/Qur'an/Hadith/Timeline
Even according to Arguments of Imam Redha versus Exilarch and Catholicos that he[pbuh] arguments to the prayer of Prophet Habaghugh(pbuh)
...God Punished them by those and Sun and Moon look at them....

Aha! I wanted to say about the Number 666
Well,
We assume those are them,
Well,
We now have 2 sides of the equation!
And should find/seek about connection between that:
Abubakr/Umar >> ????FORMULA???? = 666 !!?
I tried a bit and found
אבובכר Abibakr ابوبكر = abjad/gematriah 231 = 6
Quantity of letters = 6
Then i didn't try the more presently


At the first opportunity I read and write here for you dear real seekers of God and Growing - God Willing

You yourselves take any helping Wink
Only have sited down while i bring all Neutral
Wouldn't you like to be among the special 10313 soldiers of the Saviour!??

Be sure these all things i write as my absolute DUTY along God,
These are only planning/theories and after i finished this duty, i will take these to Act/Deed!
And won't need anyone and travel anywhere at the moment
I've ever experienced meta-physic but came out from that spiritual manner, again i want to go..

Exact such as the programmer of the Chess of Computer[PC] that programs a Game by Algorithm that even the head of that game, means Mikhael Schumacher doesn't able to be won versus that!
Although in the Real, the programmer is so much weak than Mikhail Jordan hahaha

Did you understand what am i trying to say!?

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 20: Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:16 pm
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Re: Woman dragon 2 beasts Altar Lamb

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[Replying to post 19 by Yusef]
Hi again to you non-fool/truth-criterion/open-minded scientists/seekers/scholars..
May God Guide you more and more

Well,
When I wrote my first post under this topic!?
- while i was searching on Google for a thing and found accidently some Persian websites were written about the Woman and 12 Stars and interpreted Muhammad, Ali, 12 Imams..
Of course any any any Shi'a people even doesn't know anything about religion, by the first view to this verse of revelation understands that!
Means it's so much cleared for Shia Muslims/atheists!!
Then I looked at the Revelation and continued..

Tonight I searched seriously in Google to find whom before me have discovered these, and found nobody!
Even many wrong interpretations from all Christians, Sunnies..

Wel, one of them claims and referred to the book of DaniEl chapter 11 about Islam!!

Then I read that chapter surfacing and found something again!

I write a very short Apocalypse from Shi'a then you yourselves compare with the book of DaniEl 11:

Shi'a Hadith
    ...any flag[except ISIS and any like that, maybe religious government] before rising Sufyani/Khurasani/Yemeni is Taghut,
    ...these all 3 rise at a year a month a day!
    Sufyani is evil,
    Khorasani good,
    Yemeni [Amir Ghadhab - Commander Angry] is very good!

Well, Prophet Daniel(pbuh) mentioned king of north and king of south!
The same Sufyani from Shaam and Yemeni from Yemen!

And an important note i forgot to say, it is except that you should put every opinion in the tables of the Crossword, also you should test other events of the around also!
And detect other events
Means if you put a thing like the first beast in the blocks of the question {Who is the beast?},
You should check/test/analyse everything is connected to that!
Means you should put everywhere of Bible/Qur'an the same thing and test everything around..
Also it's like
Wait wait!
The better example is the Sudoku puzzle!
A great near infinity round/circular crossnumber puzzle Sudoku
That when test a number and found it's true, then it verifies that the same one which you tested side that, it's true, and that verifies one reciprocally!


Also, about the 24 elders,
Shi'a Hadith:
The special 313 fighters and important soldiers of Al-Mahdi, anyone is from anywhere of the world, and from army of Khurasani, 24 men! That is the most numerous than other nations!
I'm not saying that this is 100% correct!
But i wanna open your minds

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