Civil. Respectful. Intelligent. Thoughtful. Challenging.

Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4

Reply to topic
GTO50
First Post
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 6:49 pm  Questions for Jehovah Witness? Reply with quote

Do members of the Jehovah Witness organization
believe that Jesus was the Word as written of in...?

John
Chapter 1
1 In the beginning was the Word,
and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him;
and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 31: Thu Dec 20, 2018 12:10 pm
Reply
Re: Dear Jehovah Witness Believer.

Like this post
[Replying to post 29 by Falling Light 101]

Hello, I'm afraid I cannot follow what you are saying very well.

However I think this online bible course deals with what you are asking about. If you would like to do the first three lessons and let me know if you have any questions.


CLICK HERE
https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/online-lessons/

Goto top, bottom
View user's profile Visit poster's website 
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 32: Mon Dec 24, 2018 9:20 am
Reply
Re: Dear Jehovah Witness Believer.

Like this post (1): JehovahsWitness
Falling Light 101 wrote:


My only question was - = what variable or difference does it make - - whether or not a person has been defiled, tainted, dirtied, sullied, stained and ruined - by one sex or the other = Male or Female.

Jehovah's Witnesses believe Rev 14:4 to be symbolic not literal.

"The bride of Christ is composed of 144,000 spirit-anointed persons who individually maintain their ‘virginity’ by remaining separate from the world and by keeping themselves morally and doctrinally pure.​—Re 14:1, 4; compare 1Co 5:9-13; 6:15-20; Jas 4:4; 2Jo 8-11."
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200004563#h=7:441-7:705

Quote:

Jehovah Witnesses believe that - the 144,000 are all “ THE REIGNING GROUP MALE SEX - AS KINGS “
We do not.

Quote:

- - but there absolutely is no verse anywhere found for this claim in Rev 14
You're correct. Jehovah's Witnesses believe there is no male sex or female sex in heaven. (Gal 3:28) However, while on Earth the Bible says that God's spirit is poured on male and female alike. (Acts 2:17) Also that females are 'heirs' like any male. This would include those with the heavenly hope or the Earthly hope. (1 Peter 3:7)

Goto top, bottom
View user's profile 
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 33: Mon Dec 31, 2018 7:21 pm
Reply

Like this post
Thank You kindly for the great response that You made about my post.

Kind friend, I do understand Your answer _ that Jehovah Witness believers teach that the Bible says that “ there is neither a Male “ NOR “ Female sex in heaven. “

But what the Jehovah Witness Translation is saying = this is not what the Bible says, in the original manuscripts.

Gal 3:28 = In heaven ( there is neither malenor “ female ) = The word NOR “ is not the word that is used in the Greek manuscripts.

If we look at the original Greekit actually says - here in Gal 3:28 ....

:28 - There is G1762 - neither G3756 - Jew G2453 - nor οὐδέ G3761 - Greek,G1672
- there is G1762 - neither G3756 - bond G1401 - nor οὐδέ G3761 - free, G1658 -
- there is G1762 - neither G3756 - male G730 - and Καί G2532 - female: G2338

These are two different Greek words used here in Gal 3:28 - The original manuscripts are not saying that there is neither Male “ NOR “ Female - But the Greek word regarding Male and Female - says that there is neither Male and Καί G2532 “ Female.

The words = AND - Καί G2532 vs - NOR / NEITHER - οὐδέ G3761 - - these are two totally different words
οὐδέ G3761 - - oude - oo-deh' - Literally Means = nor, not, neither, not even: - never, no (more, + nothing.
Καί G2532 - - kai - kahee - Literally Means = And, also, even, so, then, too, but, or. more
We see how the Trinitarian Translators attempted to deliberately mistranslate and switch these two words in the following verses.

Act 13:26 Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent.
:27 For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, AND / NOR yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him.

The Trinitarian Translators mistranslated Act 13:26 - because original says that the rulers and them that dwelled at Jerusalem were reading from the voices of the Prophets - MEANING - AND / yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him.
But the Trinitarian Translators lied and changed the verse to make it say _” NOR, yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day. THIS IS NOT WHAT THE MANUSCRIPTS WERE SAYING. - It was saying that - the word of this salvation sent. AND / yet “ though “ - the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him. The Bible was not saying that the voices of the prophets were NOT / NOR being read - every sabbath day, Yet the Trinitarian Translation contradicts the Jehovah Witness Translation and here the Jehovah witness Translators - THEY TRANSLATED THIS VERSE CORRECTLY ..... saying in the JWs Translation - that - the things spoken by the Prophets,+ which ARE “ read aloud every sabbath. BUT - The Trinitarians claims that the things spoken by the Prophets,+ which ARE NOT / NOR read aloud.
Obviously there is a huge difference between saying = IS / ARE “ and saying “ ARE / IS NOT / NOR “
Also, here in - 1Co 10:31 Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.
:32 Give none offence, “ AND / NOR “ to the Jews, “ AND / NOR “ to the Gentiles, “ AND / NOR “ to the church of God: - :33 Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, THEM that be saved.
Here in 1Co 10:31 – 33. - The Translators DENY that - Paul was saying that we are to give no offence - to the Jews, “ AND “ to the Gentiles, “ AND “ to “ THEM “ church of God: - :33 Even as I / Myself. -........ to THEM that are saved.
The Translators make it sound as if Paul is saying that - the Jews, nor the Gentiles, nor the church of God: nor Him / Himself - to give no offence.
This is a huge difference ( for example ) - in saying - that food and water is not available to me, nor my friend Jack, nor my friend Karen, nor my friend Blake, nor my friend Don, nor You.
And saying, that food and water is not available to me, and my friend Jack, and my friend Karen, and my friend Blake, and my friend Don, and You.


Saying that food and water is not available to me, AND my friend Jack, AND my friend Karen, AND my friend Blake, AND my friend Don, AND unto You. Means that food and water will possibly could be and obviously - could be available to others besides and outside of Jack, Karen, Blake, Don, and You....

Paul was not excluding the CHURCH and LIMITING offences to say that - all of the offenses abhorrent things, the annoyance, the embarrassments, irritations, objectionabls, the outrageous and shocking and offending and faulty things would not to occur to unbelievers outside of the Jews, and Gentiles, and the church. In other word the Jews, and Gentiles INSIDE the church are not to be offensive toward one another.
Yes – in the Church - - The Church - they will be offensive, objectionable, an embarrassment and an annoyance and offending and faulty to unbelievers outside of the Church of the Jews, and the Gentiles.
Paul was ONLY including the Jews and Gentile believers and only attaching these groups - directly only who were INSIDE and a PART to the Church and Himself - by using the word “ AND “ them / THEY “ Church of God “
Meaning - give no offence - to the Jews, “ AND “ to the Gentiles, “ ANDTHEY church of God: - :33 Even as I / Myself. -........ THEM that be saved
The very next verse confirms this - saying in Verse 33 - which is another mistranslation
As 1Co 10: verse 33 defines this concept to say it is to “ THEY - that be saved. Not saying in the manuscripts – that they may be saved. This is Another Mistranslation.

Mat 1:12 THEY were brought to Babylon
Mat 2:5 THEY said unto him
Mat 2:9 THEY had heard the king,
Mat 4:20 THEY straightway left their nets,
Mat 9:31 THEY were departed, spread abroad his fame
Mat 12:4 neither for THEY which were with him, but only for the priests?
Mat 12:3 THEY that were with him;
Mat 14:17 THEY say unto him,
Mat 14:33 THEY that were in the ship.
Mat 15:34 THEY said, Seven, and a few little fishes.
Mat 16:14 THEY said,
Mat 22:5 THEY made light of it,
Mat 26:66 THEY answered and said
Mat 27:4 THEY said, What is that to us?

The word THEY in verse 33 - was Paul speaking concerning - the Church Group only. The Translators changed the verse to say ( “ – that they may be saved. - it says nothing about someone perhaps being saved or _ that they might be saved.

Paul was saying the Jews and Gentiles and Himself and them in the church. Not Jews NOR Gentiles NOR Himself NOR The Church are to be offensive and objectionable to unbelievers. The Translators completely changed the entire meaning of the verse - by changing three total words. Changing the word “ AND “ to say the word “ NOR “ and then they added other multiple words - to back up the three words that they changed.

My Friend - But again, the verses about sexual natures in heaven - has nothing to do with anything that I was saying - I did not quote the verses to demonstrate what the Jehovah Witnesses claimed to believed or did not " CLAIM " to believe - about there not being Male and Female sex in heaven.

I quoted the verses about there being no Male and Female in heaven to prove - a fact - not to be saying - that there will be NEITHER MALE NOR FEMALE. And there is a difference in saying that there will be NEITHER be “ MALE AND FEMALE.
MALE AND FEMALE - will be in heaven - but this does not mean that there will be NEITHER be “ a MALE NOR a FEMALE.
It was saying there is no sexual distinction between the MALE and FEMALE.... But there will be no MALE AND FEMALE.

I only mentioned - to tell about the fact that there no male AND female sexuality in heaven - to point to the fact that the 144,000 of Rev 14:4 that says - These are they which were not defiled ( Μετά - meta among or with ) women; for they are virgins.
The Rev 14:4 verse is giving a sexual nature to the 144,000 - saying that they were not defiled AMONG - ALONGSIDE / WITH - the female sex. / women. This is the only verse in the entire Bible that gives a " sexual nature " description to people who are in literally in heaven..

If - this is the only verse in the entire Bible that gives a Male / Female sexual identity to believers in heaven - as being associated or involved with males and females here on earth - and chosen for their conduct and status in a sexual nature concerning a sexual nature of their “ SPIRITUAL OR PHYSICAL VIRGINITY “ and defilement and pollution - concerning the FEMALE sex. - Then it has to literally be - either a male or female sexual nature - saying that the virgins were not defiled AMONG - WITH / ALONGSIDE with all the other female sex.
If Jehovah Witnesses were consistent and honest about this meaning ONLY a spiritual and symbolic meaning only - it would not matter if the 144,000 were male or female. They could be either male or female. Spiritually.
And if it was A SYMBOLIC - SPIRITUAL meaning as You claim - it could be made up of both the Male and Female sexes. And the Bible would not be saying that they were MALES ONLY. in definition.... Because there is no Male and Female sex to the concept of a spiritual virgin. Spiritual virgins consist of both Male and Female sexes - according to the Bible.
Respectfully I say - , I can't help but notice and see that this ideology continually contradicts Your statement when You claim that the 144,000 are " ALL EXCLUSIVE MALE SEX - KINGS / MALES " who are in some type of authority position who have some type of domination. The Jehovah Witnesses contradict their statement of faith, by claiming that it is SPIRITUAL SYMBOLIC ONLY - yet Jehovah Witnesses are here also giving a sexual nature to the 144,000. If it is spiritual, and only symbolic = then how can You give a natural sex distinction - to claim - that they are Males only. This is a total contradiction. If it is spiritual - SPIRITUALLY - there is no such a thing as a male and female sex. In Symbolism and Spirituality
So in reality - Jehovah Witnesses do not believe the Bible concept concerning the fact that SPIRITUALLY - there is no Male and Female sex in heaven - because they believe that they are specifically and only the MALE SEX. This is untruthful and a contradicting untruth. - Honestly - something of a total falsity - opposing their claim.
And they actually in reality - do not believe that Rev 14:4 - is only a symbolic spiritual meaning. - because Jehovah Witnesses have assigned an exclusive male sex to the 144,000. Due to the description in the verse.
So it is not - SPIRITUAL or SYMBOLIC VIRGINS - to Jehovah Witnesses - it is a physical demand and condition that they be only - the physical male sex only - based on the fact that these males had not been defiled SEXUALLY PHYSICALLY or even SYMBOLICALLY SPIRITUALLY - by the opposite female sex. - by women.
How can a female SPIRITUALLY and symbolically defile a male - in any worse condition and in badness and in a more of a terrible stain and perverse filth or detriment and soiled condition than another MALE can also - defile a male. What is so nasty, perverted and staining and evil about the female sex - that makes it so important to make certain - that a MALE is not SPIRITUALLY defiled by a female - yet a male - being defiled by another male - has no value no importance and no damaging effect on other males ?
Why is it only the male sex who are chosen and special to make sure that MALES ONLY are not defiled and perverted and SPIRITUALLY / SYMBOLICALLY tainted by females. What is it spiritually about FEMALES that make them so evil and perverse, spiritually - that these males who are not defiled by the female sex - so special and chosen and holy. ?
The verse says that they had not been defiled WITH or AMONG women AMONG or WITH the FEMALE SEX. The Bible gives a sexual identity to the female sex.
Yet Jehovah Witnesses completely are untruthful as they pretend that the word " MEN " here in Rev 14:4 saying " These were redeemed from among MEN - is referring to the MALE sex - But the word " MEN " does not - it is the word " Arthropod " and Anthropoid is not male or female. - it always means all of human kind - all of humanity.
Yet Jehovah Witnesses leave it to indicate that it is males.
And these 144,000 are not in authority or dominating anything - they are nothing more than a mobile musical group of singers and musicians who follow the Lamb ( as servants ) - following Him wherever He moves or goes.
This word Μετά - meta - always means - = AMONG - WITH - and is used always as exactly the same meaning. - as we see here Luk 1:28.
:28 The Lord is with thee: ( MARY ) blessed art thou ( Μετά - meta among or with ) women.

Mary was not blessed for having any particular relationship with women nor for performing any actions or acts with women in a physical way - Mary was not blessed for doing anything ( actionable ) or in good deeds or good behavior - WITH WOMEN.
But she was blessed AMONG / ALONG SIDE - with all of the other women - Among all women - not " WITH an activity or an action " or deeds “ WITH “ women as the Trinitarian translators pretend the verse indicates - here in Rev 14:4.
There is a huge difference in translating a passage that says with women and among women - and the translators make it clear and correctly use the word in its real meaning - in Luk 1:28 and in every other single verse in the entire Bible. Yet they change the meaning of this word in Rev 14:4, to give a spiritual cogitation and deliberation. ( By changing the meaning of the word - ( Μετά – meta - which only means - ALONGSIDE / AMONG WITH - ACCOMPANYING
Luk 1:42 Mary - Blessed art thou among women,
Mat 11:11 Among them that are born of women.
Mar 15:40 Women looking - among whom was Mary Magdalene

This is how this verse is used in the Bible in every single instance - yet the Translators changed it this one single time in Rev 14:4 - cast an alternative meaning on the verse - to conform with their personal doctrine.
We see who the FIRST FRUITS always are - and never, ever are they Gentiles. - this is a total contradiction. The Bible defines first fruits as Jews only. - never gentiles. - We see this very clearly demonstrated here in the book of James.
James is addressing the concept of the " FIRST FRUITS " only to - the twelve tribes - which are scattered abroad.
Jas 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to “ the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad.
and verse :18 declares that the literal 12 tribes are - of the first fruits of his creatures.
But - again, This is who the Jehovah Witness believers are making the claim about - claiming that they are the " first fruits " The Bible says repeatedly that the JEWS are the first fruits and the gentiles are never called the
" first fruits " and the 144,000 are of the " first fruits " The contradictions and mistranslations seem to be the only values that Jehovah Witnesses seem to cherish.
Anything that is mistranslated in the Trinitarian translations - It seems that Jehovah Witnesses cling and clutch to these mistranslations and added and deleted words and they attempt to extrapolate and generalize another contradiction on the top of the existing contradiction and changed verses - - that have added and deleted and altered words and meanings - to them - in order to attract people who really never wanted the truth of the original manuscripts NOR wanted the real meaning of words - and literally - the verses are only attractive to them - when they are altered and mistranslated and extrapolate to an ever deeper alteration and change.

Goto top, bottom
View user's profile 
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 34: Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:22 am
Reply

Like this post (1): JehovahsWitness
[Replying to post 33 by Falling Light 101]

Falling Light 101 wrote:


But what the Jehovah Witness Translation is saying = this is not what the Bible says, in the original manuscripts.

Gal 3:28 = In heaven ( there is neither malenor “ female ) = The word NOR “ is not the word that is used in the Greek manuscripts.

If we look at the original Greekit actually says - here in Gal 3:28 ....


The point is made regardless don't you think? Or are you trying to find something to disagree about? Because I don't care if one translation says 'and' while another says 'nor' or 'neither'. To get bent out of shape for such a reason to not see the forest for the trees.

There are several translations that also use the word 'nor' or 'neither' or translated 'no male and female'. At any rate the sentence is in the negative clause. As there is no Jew, gentile, slave or free man, since there are none of those it only makes sense that male and female are included in that list.

"there is no male and female"
"male nor female"
"neither male and female"
"neither male nor female"
"nor is there male and female"

All of these translations are fine with me as they all covey the same idea. The NWT is not only one that uses the word neither or nor. It was also not the first. The King James version is much older and it translates Gal 3:28 "there is neither male nor female".

https://biblehub.com/galatians/3-28.htm

As for the rest of your post, I look forward to the release of your own translation of the Bible so that the world may compare your work to others.

Goto top, bottom
View user's profile 
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 35: Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:42 pm
Reply

Like this post
I understand Your point and I can see where You are coming from. And I can agree - this example is just a minor change and is not really changing the picture because we have other many other verses to explain regarding the matter. But what about the changes that were made where there is not much detail written surrounding the parts that were added to, changed and erased ?

I was just showing what the original manuscripts say.

The males and females that exist in heaven - will not be male and female.

But they will be male or female. This is the message of the Bible in the manuscripts ... The concept of Male and female is being a part of a unity the female / woman was created from the DNA of a male according to the Bible. God took the rib or body part out of Adam and created female from this pre - living organism called Adam.

And this is important to God who created them both and who also gave us His word in Hebrew and Greek languages. The Bible says that there will be male or females - but in the context of the plan of God the idea of male and female in the union and unification of accompanying one another as male to female by sexual identity and in the eyes of God. - The male AND female idea will not exist. But You and I will be male or female in heaven and the translators have changed this to say that the idea of male AND female will not exist in heaven. We know what they meant because the rest of the scriptures explain the details - but without the details - the translators leave no form of accuracy regarding the matter.

This is what they do. - They want You to trust them and glide along with them in their little tune and pitch that they play upon the Bible ... - We can see how the Trinitarian Translators have mistranslated many other passages to add to the word of God,, SUCH AS IN THE EXAMPLE BELOW.

{ Tyndale } Gen:16 :5 Then said Sara unto Abram: You do me unright, for I have given my maid into thy bosom:

THIS IS CONTRADICTION - and both of them are incorrect.

{ KJV } Gen:16:5 And Sara said unto Abram, My wrong be upon thee: I have given my maid into thy bosom:

In Gen:16:5 - The original manuscripts are simply saying...

5 Sara said unto Abram, VIOLENCE is upon me giving the maid a bosom: - that’s it !

Gen 16:5 Sarai H8297 said H559 unto H413 Abram,H87 violence H2555 is upon / about H5921 me H595 giving H5414
the maidH8198 a bosom;H2436 .......... Why add words to attempt to insert the idea that Sarah had blamed herself or Abraham for the violence of Hagar and Ishmael - for their act of practicing polygamy ?

And this pitch and tune are seen projected onto the entire subject of polygamy as the translators make every change and alteration they possibly can when the Manuscripts mention this situation.

It just seems that this abusing of the text, lies in key doctrinal / key positions where the Government and Independent translators know that the society will be happy with the changes. My friend - they mistranslated and switched little words around here and there - in order to generate a total theological confusion that is expressed in the idea that - only if You place Your faith in the translation and the Trinitarian or translations ideology and way of rationalizing things, then the rest of the Bible will make no sense nor be understandable. They presented a translation that literally says - Without them and their input to affirm their support and form of explanation -
and arrangement of words - they pretend that the reader will be lost in confusion and misunderstanding.

Unless You see things the way we see them and understand the molding and forming of the language in the way that we visualize things, then the entire Bible message completely falls apart. this was their intent.

This was done in order to mold and reshape both the English language and the manuscript language into a blended mesh and network that would represent their terminology and perspective. - instead of translating the manuscript's - word for word and letting the story tell itself - instead, they created a play - script or a movie, placing their ideas and social norms that existed in current modern society into the cast.

This is why they were burning and torturing and imprisoning people just before they produced the translation ( Concerning the very translation ) itself being translated by others . They still continued to drive people out of England and Europe and expel and persecute people who thought different religious ideologies than they. Many, many Pilgrims and Puritans and Quakers left England because they could not legally exist while being separated from the Church OF England - they would be killed, persecuted and tortured and reduced into nothings of society. They sought to separate from the Church of England;
King Charles the Ist and many other Trinitarian Kings ( TRINITARIAN BEASTS ) would threaten them with harsh punishments if they did not obey the Church of England in religious faiths. Most of them starved to death and died of diseases and other related deaths.

To the Church OF England - this was just a little , tiny , needed change in their society that really never mattered or affected the entirety of the body of society. This was their attitude. And their attitude when they made their translation. I believe that they completely perverted the original manuscripts and sought to insert their pre concieved doctrines..

And this was just in England alone. What about the Millions of total victims throughout Europe who suffered at the hands of the Trinitarian Governmental Translators. This is why it took the Roman Catholic Church nearly 500 years after Christ to produce a Bible into the Latin / Italian language and why they waited until nearly 2000 years after Christ to make the Bible into any other language on the entire planet outside of Latin / Italian. - while butchering, murdering, slaughtering and persecuting others for their faiths that contradicted their established faith and doctrines.

We do not need to re translate the entire Bible - I personally simply look at the mistranslations that exist and I see all the places that they have changed the Bible - and the key, doctrinal ideologies seem to be centered only around a few subjects. The rest of it - they translated correctly but yet still changed words around in order to mold the language - - it took The Church Of Rome 2000 years nearly to make this happen.

This is why the earlier translators such as Wycliffe, Coverdale and The Tyndale Bible, Bishops Bible and Even Martian Luther have contradictions in their translations that are against the later Catholic and Protestant Churches transliterations - because the earlier translators attempted to create their own twist that molded and contorted into the fans and group whom which they were translating for. Today's translators do the same exact thing.


But readers come to the realization that this was all of God's plan - whatever happened - God made it all happen- King James Translators and other translators just had to simply - be inspired.

Goto top, bottom
View user's profile 
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 36: Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:44 am
Reply

Like this post
Falling Light 101 wrote:

[font=Arial]I understand Your point and I can see where You are coming from. And I can agree - this example is just a minor change and is not really changing the picture because we have other many other verses to explain regarding the matter. But what about the changes that were made where there is not much detail written surrounding the parts that were added to, changed and erased ?

I was just showing what the original manuscripts say.

Nothing wrong with an interlinear version of the Bible. However, to just read an interlinear version doesn't always read correctly into English. A good translation translates accurately as possible what the writer was tying to convey. This is where translators have their work cut out for them as they don't translate based on what they feel and they definitely shouldn't translate based on their personal doctrines. These types of translations are called 'paraphrasing' Bibles. Which many 'Literal' Bible translators will tell you a paraphrasing Bible can hardly be called a Bible at all.

Quote:

The males and females that exist in heaven - will not be male and female.

Yes, that is what the writer was trying to get across. Yet look at the following paraphrasing Bible translation of Gal 3:28

"We are no longer Jews or Greeks or slaves or free men or even merely men or women, but we are all the same—we are Christians; we are one in Christ Jesus." The Living Bible (TLB)

A literal Bible translator would call this translation a disaster. The words 'we are all the same' and 'we are Christians' are not even part of the manuscript. There is nothing that even comes close.

A good translation will be harmonious throughout all books. Adding too much beyond what the writer was trying to covey is not good. Yet getting bogged down with minutiae can also lead to a inaccurate translation into English as well.

Goto top, bottom
View user's profile 
Display posts from previous:   

Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4

Jump to:  
Facebook
Tweet

 




On The Web | Ecodia | Hymn Lyrics Apps
Facebook | Twitter

Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group.   Produced by Ecodia.

Igloo   |  Lo-Fi Version