This Generation Will Not Pass Away:

[Overcomer]

Jesus talks about the destruction of the temple and signs of the end times in Matt. 24:1-35:

1 Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2 “Do you see all these things?� he asked. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.�

3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,� they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?�

4 Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.

9 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.

22 “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.

26 “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.

29 “Immediately after the distress of those days


“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’

30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth[c] will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.[d] 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

32 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[e] is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

Verse 34 has been the subject of many a debate. My questions are as follows:

What did Jesus mean when he said "this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened?" Who is "this generation"?

[JehovahsWitness]

Jehovah's Witness posted:

We (Jehovah's Witnesses) believe the "parousia" or Christ's presence in kingdom power began in 1914. Christ's "return" as in his returning for the final judgement and destruction of the wicked is a future event.


For more the JW have an official website www.jw.org which I recommend for non-witnesses who wish to make definitive statements of the present day beliefs held by this group to avoid errors such as the one made above.



JEHOVAH'S WITNESS

Doesn’t the Watchtower version of the Second Coming often change? Did any of these prophecies actually happen?

I wouldn't say "often" (which is of course relative) but out religion is progressive as opposed to a tradition based religion. Part of our belief system is based on progressive (changing) understanding. This is why I refered to present day beliefs, which, as I said the latest beliefs can be found at www.jw.org.

See links above for a more detailed analysis.

JEHOVAH'S WITNESS

[JehovahsWitness]

It it the Jehovah Witnesses who claim that Jesus did return in 1914 but is invisible.

That is incorrect ( I take it "it it" is a typo for "it is")

We (Jehovah's Witnesses) believe the "parousia" or Christ's presence in kingdom power began in 1914. Christ's "return" as in his returning for the final judgement and destruction of the wicked is a future event.

Is this future event also known as The Day of the Lord? or the Day of Judgment? Is that what you're referring to?

No, the "final judgement" I was referring to is that mentioned in Matthew 25 by Jesus, namely when he "returns" to judge all earths inhabitants (dividing them like shesp and goats). Ultimately he will kill of the wicked at Armageddon and reward the faithful with everlasting life.

Regarding the Lord's day, if you look in a concordance the expression "the Lord's day" or "The fear inspiring day of the Lord" you'll quickly see that they are in fact referring to various pivotal events, past or future. The "Lord's day" mentioned in the first chapter of Revelation is, we JWs believe the same as the parousia (or Christ's presence) which we believe began in 1914.

The Judgement day mentioned in Revelation, runs from the end of Armageddon to the releasing of Satan. It corresponds to the millennial rule of Christ.



JW

[polonius]

It it the Jehovah Witnesses who claim that Jesus did return in 1914 but is invisible.

That is incorrect ( I take it "it it" is a typo for "it is")

We (Jehovah's Witnesses) believe the "parousia" or Christ's presence in kingdom power began in 1914. Christ's "return" as in his returning for the final judgement and destruction of the wicked is a future event.

Is this future event also known as The Day of the Lord? or the Day of Judgment? Is that what you're referring to?

RESPONSE:

By 1933, it was taught that Christ had returned invisibly in 1914 and the "last days" had also begun then.[129][130] The teaching that the "great tribulation" had begun in 1914 and was "cut short" in 1918—to be resumed at Armageddon—was discarded in 1969.[131]"

RESPONSE: Actually, I'm not referring to anything. The info came from Wikipedia.

See especially:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eschatolo ... 80%931881)

[polonius]

Doesn’t the Watchtower version of the Second Coming often change? Did any of these prophecies actually happen?

JW posted:

I wouldn't say "often" (which is of course relative) but out religion is progressive as opposed to a tradition based religion. Part of our belief system is based on progressive (changing) understanding. This is why I refered to present day beliefs, which, as I said the latest beliefs can be found at www.jw.org.

RESPONSE:

Yes, indeed: "Changing, changing, ever changing." Are you saying that this is God inspired, or just a group of men developing a changing story as time goes on?

[polonius]

Doesn’t the Watchtower version of the Second Coming often change? Did any of these prophecies actually happen?

JW posted:

I wouldn't say "often" (which is of course relative) but out religion is progressive as opposed to a tradition based religion. Part of our belief system is based on progressive (changing) understanding. This is why I refered to present day beliefs, which, as I said the latest beliefs can be found at www.jw.org.

RESPONSE:

Yes, indeed: "Changing, changing, ever changing." Are you saying that this is God created or just a very fallible group of men developing a changing story as time goes on?

[polonius]

Doesn’t the Watchtower version of the Second Coming often change? Did any of these prophecies actually happen?

JW posted:

I wouldn't say "often" (which is of course relative) but out religion is progressive as opposed to a tradition based religion. Part of our belief system is based on progressive (changing) understanding. This is why I refered to present day beliefs, which, as I said the latest beliefs can be found at www.jw.org.

RESPONSE:

Yes, indeed: "Changing, changing, ever changing." Are you saying that this is God inspired, or just a group of men developing a changing story as time goes on?

Are there going to be more changes based on "progressive" (changing) understanding?

So you are admitting that the belief system is the work of fallible men not of God? Is that correct? Is JW then a man-made religion?

[brunumb]

[Replying to post 362 by polonius]

Are there going to be more changes based on "progressive" (changing) understanding?

Of course there will be changes. You have to shore up the foundations whenever weaknesses become evident. Can't afford to have the whole establishment collapse. It is all consistent with my signature.

Christianty: 2000 years of making it up as you go along.

[JehovahsWitness]

Are there going to be more changes based on "progressive" (changing) understanding?

I hope so or I'm in the wrong religion! As was well put ...

Of course there will be changes. You have to shore up the foundations whenever weaknesses become evident.

Being wrong is a sign its time to change, only a fool, a madman or a fundamentalist hangs on to errors for tradition's sake when enlightenment comes knocking (if humanity had done this we'd still be living in caves)... We started out carrying all the religious baggage from the dark ages, but began with the premise "Question Everything!"... I suppose Jehovah's Witnesses can be thought of as the rebels of the religious establishment, we march by the beat of a different drum while the dusty old religions of this world stop marching somewhere in the 1500s!

In short, when it comes to spiritual enlightenment, Jehovahs Witnesses believe we can never fully understand the mind of God as he is infinite, what we can do, is continue to make progress as he reveals more of his mind and purpose to those he loves. The Jehovah's Witness view is based on Proverbs 4:18 so progress (change) is for us a fundamental proof of the true religion.

PROVERBS 18:4

But the path of the righteous is like the bright morning light that grows brighter and brighter until full daylight.

JW


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To learn more please go to other posts related to...

JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES , DOCTRINAL CHANGES and ...FAILED PREDICTIONS,

[polonius]

JW posted:

hope so or I'm in the wrong religion! As was well put ...

Quote: Of course there will be changes. You have to shore up the foundations whenever weaknesses become evident.

RESPONSE: Are you willing to honestly and objectively examine the errors of the current belief system and adopt a different and more consistent belief system?

[polonius]

JW posted:

I hope so or I'm in the wrong religion! As was well put ...

Quote: Of course there will be changes. You have to shore up the foundations whenever weaknesses become evident.

RESPONSE: Are you willing to honestly and objectively examine the errors of the current belief system and adopt a different and more consistent belief system?

In short, when it comes to spiritual enlightenment, Jehovahs Witnesses believe we can never fully understand the mind of God as he is infinite,

RESPONSE: But are you willing to recognize the many contradictions and the many changes in teaching necessary to correct them?

If it be recognized that there are many contradictions, do you really believe that God made them or the sect made them?