The Kingdom of God is meant to be of this world.

[dio9]

The crisis in Christianity is ; Christians don't believe the Kingdom of God is meant to be of this world.
The Kingdom of God is meant to be of this world.
Agree or disagree.

[PinSeeker]

It's Tcg, not TCG. There is plenty of evidence for this fact.

Oh, my goodness...

An additional claim is evidence of nothing, but an additional claim. Claims are easy to make, apparently evidence for this particular mythology is impossible to provide or else someone would have provided it.

Like I said in the other thread: you'll see. I mean, you already do, but one day you'll actually see.

[Tcg]

It's Tcg, not TCG. There is plenty of evidence for this fact.

Oh, my goodness...

I know. It's hard to believe you could overlook such an obvious fact.

An additional claim is evidence of nothing, but an additional claim. Claims are easy to make, apparently evidence for this particular mythology is impossible to provide or else someone would have provided it.

Like I said in the other thread: you'll see. I mean, you already do, but one day you'll actually see.

While we are waiting for this prophecy to be shown to be false, please provide evidence presently.





Tcg

[showme]

The crisis in Christianity is ; Christians don't believe the Kingdom of God is meant to be of this world.
The Kingdom of God is meant to be of this world.
Agree or disagree.

The power and Spirit is of this world for those who have entered into the kingdom of heaven. The actual ruling of king David over the combined sticks of Judah and Ephraim, on the land I gave to Jacob (Ezekiel 37:15-28) is yet tomorrow. At that time the "Word of God" will rule over the nations/Gentiles with a rod of iron (Revelation 19:13-15).

[William]

[Replying to post 14 by PinSeeker]

What do you expect Christians to be doing, William? And this is surely not to say that Christian actually are doing nothing. But what do you think Christians should be doing?

It is not for me or you to say Seeker of the Pin. Christians all do whatever they are doing with their individual life-times, be that nothing or something...in relation- of course - to the thread topic.

Well, God is building His kingdom now, William. Has been since the birth and life (on earth) of Jesus. That's what I said above. And Christians' participation in that is mandatory, i.e., the Great Commission, given by Jesus before His ascension. And we see this all through the New Testament from Paul, Peter, James, etc. Faith without works is dead, as James puts it.

Then, it appears you believe that Christians should be building the KoG on Earth NOW.

Many Christians do not agree with this, preferring to rest on their laurels, believing that the KoG does not 'arrive' until Jesus comes and says 'Make it so".

One possible reason for this may be that they have chosen to allow themselves to believe what they have been told regarding "The Second Coming" as if this were integral to their faith.

I personally don't regard having to believe in "The Second Coming" is integral to any message regarding 'Salvation'. I do however get the idea that Jesus expects his followers to be DOING rather than to be WAITING. It appears to be a focus of his ministry to convince individuals to get DOING rather than sit waiting.

(Maybe there was a "loss in translation" rather than any "willful ignorance" regarding that?)

*Shrugs*

If "The Second Coming" it is a made up story then Christians are going to have to face that eventually, and pay the price along with everyone else.

Other Christians believe that they are not to involve themselves in 'The World' and thus exempt themselves from the responsibility of DOING in the NOW in relation to the building the KoG over the entire face of the planet.

Their beliefs are that Jesus will return and build it for them and then they will move and take possession of it as part of their reward for doing NOTHING.

Yeah, well if that's the case, they're terribly wrong.

Only time will tell what is what. I am not in any position to make the call.

I think it is most likely a story made up for the purpose of getting folk to rest on their laurels and forget about trying to save themselves through The Christ Energy being activated into their outward expressions/actions and set to, building the KoG.

The only other option available is to suffer the consequences of not doing and just waiting, dust in every mouth, theist, atheist, young and old together...because what else can we expect from all our systems of disparity pitched against GODs System of Parity?

Q: Which of the 2 types of Christian are more likely to be given the reward? Those involved NOW in the building of the KoG, or those who do NOTHING?

Actually, of the two types you propagate, only one is valid. All these works that Christians do (or should be doing) are works of the Spirit and therefore evidence of their faith. For the person who has been actually been given new life and is therefore a Christian, a desire to help God build His kingdom here on earth and good works toward that end together are the natural result and outpouring of God's work via His Spirit in their lives.

And then one can also add all the works of the spirit that non-Christians are also doing to that end. Because they want to and see it as the right thing to do, not because they have to or see it as something they are ordered to do.

Main thing is, if the job gets done, and The Spirit is doing it, how it is done/who it is done through, is not an issue. Otherwise one would have the type of Christian who not only thinks they are the 'valid' type, but also who think only Christians can do it.

But so far, it appears the Spirit works with what the Spirit has available in which to work with.

I guess that will be up to Jesus to decide on the day, yes?

No need for that; He was very clear about it.

I look forward to hearing that from his own lips then. In the mean time I best not 'hear' him through what others have to say on that. My impression is that he gets to say who did what he asked them to, and who did not, Christians or Otherwise.

Meantime, the best anyone can do re that is to notice who are standing around waiting and encouraging others to assume the same position, and who are getting down and dirty at the coal-face, so to speak, and join hands or cross swords as the case might be.

The world needs Jesus. That's what it needs.

Which "Jesus" are you referring to. The one who wants everyone to wait for him to return, or the one who wants everyone to build the KoG while he is gone?

Christians are taking that message to the world; they are doing their part.

Well some might be. I will grant you that much. So indeed are many non-Christians.

Their 'message' is in their actions as they do their part. They do not even require a 'Master-figure' in Jesus to be able find the will to achieve this.

If they're not, then that calls into question their Christianity. But Christians can't heal the blind, or unstop the ears of the deaf, or cause the lame to leap like a deer, or make the mute tongue shout for joy. No human being can do that. Only God can do that, because of the work of Jesus, by the inward working of His Spirit in people.

Well at that rate since only GOD can do that, if it doesn't get done then only GOD is at fault then?

I think anyone can do it. It just takes self responsibility and a commitment to see it through to completion, and an obvious understanding of what is required for the KoG to be done here on the planet. One cannot have self responsibility if one is saying "Only GOD can do it" because one may as well just join those waiting instead of those doing..

[dio9]

[Replying to post 11 by PinSeeker]

"The Crisis of Christianity" as per the OPBlurb is what the focus is on. The idea that Christians are 'waiting' for Jesus to return and at the same time are doing NOTHING in order to be 'caught in the act' when Jesus returns.

Some Christians even believe that Jesus "Returns" in them, through their own actions in relation to DOING (in the process of helping build the KoG NOW, present day).

Other Christians believe that they are not to involve themselves in 'The World' and thus exempt themselves from the responsibility of DOING in the NOW in relation to the building the KoG over the entire face of the planet.

Their beliefs are that Jesus will return and build it for them and then they will move and take possession of it as part of their reward for doing NOTHING.

Q: Which of the 2 types of Christian are more likely to be given the reward? Those involved NOW in the building of the KoG, or those who do NOTHING?

I guess that will be up to Jesus to decide on the day, yes?

Meantime, the world is in dire need...of SOMETHING, because NOTHING just will not do. And whether they believe it or not, Christians are part of this world and are thus also in dire need.



.

there is a parable where a rich man goes away and gives a portion of wealth to three servants. One did nothing with it. The master scolded him and took away what he had given him saying even from those who have little that also will be taken away.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 20 by PinSeeker]

QUESTION What is God's Kingdom?

• ANSWER Gods kingdom is a government This government is headed by Jesus Christ and selected 144,000 "government ministers" or co-rulers

QUESTION Where is God's Kingdom located?

• ANSWER Gods kingdom is in heaven. This is why it is sometimes refered to as "The kingdom of the heavens". Neither God nor Jesus will actually be on the planet earth while it operates. The kingdom will NOT be restored to Israel, Jerusalem plays no part in its operation.

QUESTION Who will God's Kingdom rule over?

• ANSWER Gods kingdom will rule over the entire territory of the earth and all humans living on it All earth's inhabitants thus become subjects of this government

QUESTION Will God's Kingdom be expressed by means of human governments such as the American or British or Israeli governments?

• ANSWER Absolutely not. All these governments will be destroyed by Jesus. There will will be one world government, Gods government!

QUESTION Will God's Kingdom only come to be when all hearts turn to God?

• ANSWER Absolutely not. All hearts will not turn to God, only a minority will want God's government; it will take control of the planet by divine mandate not through democratic consensus. Those that reject kingdom rule will be killed off

QUESTION Why did Jesus refer to the Good News of the kingdom?

• ANSWER Because this kingdom Government is the means by which God's name will be sanctified and his original purpose for the earth fullfilled With this one world government in place the earth will be restored to a paradise like condition, all suffering will end and God vindicated as the only rightful universal ruler
  http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 032#896032

INDEX - For more detailed answers please consult the index below:

WHAT

What is God's Kingdom and how will it prove a blessing for mankind?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 02#p865402

Are we to understand the Kingdom to be a LITERAL government that will rule over this literal planet earth?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 30#p865630

Is there scriptural support for the teaching that the Messianic kingdom is a literal government that will rule over this our literal planet earth?
viewtopic.php?p=1102197#p1102197

What is the dictionary definition of the word "kingdom"?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 97#p886897

Does the Kingdom government meet the criteria of a real government?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 59#p883759
viewtopic.php?p=944468#p944468

Where does this kingdom come from ? [Daniel CHAP 2]
viewtopic.php?p=1056102#p1056102

What will life be like on earth when God's kingdom government is the only government?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 54#p886454

What is God's Kingdom? [Q&A]
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 14#p885714

Are Jehovahs Universal throne (sovereignty) and the kingdom the same thing?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 13#p886313

What is "the Kingdom of God's beloved son" mentioned at COL 1:13?
viewtopic.php?p=1021500#p1021500

WHO

Will only a small number of Christians go to heaven?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 63#p829363

Is it strange that God gives the prospect of such power to lowly humans?
viewtopic.php?p=1062564#p1062564

How can millions be "saved" if only 144,000 individuals go to heaven?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 97#p846597

Who is the bride of Christ?
viewtopic.php?p=1089474#p1089474

WHEN

When did God's kingdom begin ruling?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 78#p883378

How does Ps 110:1, 2 relate to 1 Cor 15:25?
viewtopic.php?p=923845#p923845

If Jesus has been ruling since 1914 why have there been no significant improvements in world conditions?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 72#p883772

How could Jesus be appointed king in 1914 if he was given "all authority" in 33 CE?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 55#p829355

What had Jesus been doing PRIOR to 1914?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 22#p883622
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 89#p886989

If God's kingdom started operating in 1914 Why do Christians still pray for it to come?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 23#p890123

HOW

Why do most Jehovah's Witnesses not eat the bread or drink the wine at their memorial commemoration?
viewtopic.php?p=961920#p961920

Will there be any earthly (human) representatives of the government for administrative oversight?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 82#p944282

Can we see evidence of Kingdom action today?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 65#p835865

What measures has the Kingdom already taken? [Q&A]
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 88#p835788

What will those ruling in this government (The Kingdom) actually DO in the future?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 22#p878622

RELATED POSTS


What do Jesus' words "the kingdom is within you" mean?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 34#p865934

What is the "kingdom of Gods beloved son" (Col 1:13)?
viewtopic.php?p=1021500#p1021500

Did Jesus admit to Pilate to being a king
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 94#p884494
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 60#p886960

Is it not lazy and defeatist to look to God to solve all our problems?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 13#p848013

Will human governments be able to eliminate all suffering one day?
viewtopic.php?p=1062765#p1062765

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

HEAVEN , THE 144, 000 and ... "DELAYS "DEBUNKED

NOTE All posts I write represent my personal faith based beliefs as one of Jehovah's Witnesses

[dio9]

God's kingdom is not going to come floating down from above. We have to build it up from the grass roots.

[Mithrae]

• Mark 4:26 And He was saying, “The kingdom of God is like a man who casts seed upon the soil; 27 and he goes to bed at night and gets up by day, and the seed sprouts and grows—how, he himself does not know. 28 The soil produces crops by itself; first the blade, then the head, then the mature grain in the head. 29 But when the crop permits, he immediately puts in the sickle, because the harvest has come.â€�
  
  30 And He said, “How shall we picture the kingdom of God, or by what parable shall we present it? 31 It is like a mustard seed, which, when sown upon the soil, though it is smaller than all the seeds that are upon the soil, 32 yet when it is sown, it grows up and becomes larger than all the garden plants and forms large branches; so that the birds of the air can nest under its shade.�

[PinSeeker]

What do you expect Christians to be doing, William? And this is surely not to say that Christian actually are doing nothing. But what do you think Christians should be doing?

It is not for me or you to say Seeker of the Pin.

"Seeker of the Pin." I like that. But you're the one saying Christians should be doing something. What, in your opinion, is that "something"? Ohhhh... that's right, you said it's not for you to say. Okay.

Then, it appears you believe that Christians should be building the KoG on Earth NOW.

Well, it's helping God build the KoG. He's the builder/architect. But regarding us as Christians, what do you think that entails? Making everybody follow God's Law? Or making everybody worship God? Because... that's not what it entails at all.

Many Christians do not agree with this, preferring to rest on their laurels, believing that the KoG does not 'arrive' until Jesus comes and says 'Make it so".

Yeah, and if so, they're wrong. Not according to Seeker of the Pin, but according to Jesus Himself. As I said.

I personally don't regard having to believe in "The Second Coming" is integral to any message regarding 'Salvation'. I do however get the idea that Jesus expects his followers to be DOING rather than to be WAITING. It appears to be a focus of his ministry to convince individuals to get DOING rather than sit waiting.

100% agreed.

If "The Second Coming" it is a made up story then Christians are going to have to face that eventually, and pay the price along with everyone else.

All Christians -- if they are Christians -- believe in a second coming. There is just some disagreement (unfortunately, but not really important) concerning the nature of it. Like, "when He comes back that's it" vs. "when He comes back, He'll go away again, and then He'll really come back). But there's no disagreement one whether He's coming back or not.

Their beliefs are that Jesus will return and build it for them and then they will move and take possession of it as part of their reward for doing NOTHING.

Nah, I think you're reading that into it.

I think it is most likely a story made up for the purpose of getting folk to rest on their laurels and forget about trying to save themselves through The Christ Energy being activated into their outward expressions/actions and set to, building the KoG.

Yeah, nobody's gonna shoot you in the head for having an opinion, Liam of the Wil.

And then one can also add all the works of the spirit that non-Christians are also doing to that end. Because they want to and see it as the right thing to do, not because they have to or see it as something they are ordered to do.

Welllllll... The Spirit is only given to those whom the Lord has given Him to. But non-Christians can do good things, for sure, and, yet, because they want to, and because the see it as the right thing to do. Sure. But all this says, rather than that the Spirit is working in them, too, is that they're made in the image of God just like everybody else. Basically, they know love is right because God IS love, and they are made in His image. It doesn't necessarily say the Spirit is in them, or that they have the Spirit. This is true of all people.

Main thing is, if the job gets done, and The Spirit is doing it, how it is done/who it is done through, is not an issue.

Right, but it is not a sure thing that the Spirit is working in the person so that the person then freely does it. Faith without works is dead, but works without faith, while certainly possible, is also dead.

But so far, it appears the Spirit works with what the Spirit has available in which to work with.

Heh. Well, the Spirit is like the wind in a sense; the wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.

I look forward to hearing that from his own lips then.

I wouldn't wait around for that to happen if I were you.

In the mean time I best not 'hear' him through what others have to say on that.

Well that's too bad, because that's how He works. Through others. Like Romans 10 says, how will they hear without a preacher? Just as it is written, “How beautiful ar the feet of those who bring good news of good things!"

My impression is that he gets to say who did what he asked them to, and who did not, Christians or Otherwise.

Right, well, He will at the end of all things. But like I say, I wouldn't wait around for that. If I were, you know, you...

The world needs Jesus. That's what it needs.

Which "Jesus" are you referring to. The one who wants everyone to wait for him to return, or the one who wants everyone to build the KoG while he is gone?

There is but one Jesus. Again, waiting around not recommended.

Their 'message' is in their actions as they do their part. They do not even require a 'Master-figure' in Jesus to be able find the will to achieve this.

Right; see above. All are made in the image of God. But those who do not have that Master-figure will not be rewarded for their works; they will not have been "good and faithful servants," as it were. As I said, works without faith, while they are used by God to accomplish His purposes, are of no merit... indeed, all our works without Jesus are like filthy rags before the Lord.

I think anyone can do it.

Anyone can do good things, yes. See above.

[JehovahsWitness]

God's kingdom is not going to come floating down from above. We have to build it up from the grass roots.

IS the idea scriptural that God's Kingdom is dependant on human endeavours?



JW

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

THE KINGDOM, THE MILLENIUM and ...THE EARTHLY PARADISE