Who wrote the Gospel we call "John's"?

[polonius]

This seems like a question the answer to which is self-evident.

Not really. Was the gospel signed or does it state John wrote this gospel?

If not, how is it determined to have been written by John?

[otseng]

Sorry I'm late to the party, but I ran across this website that goes in depth in arguing that Lazarus was the one who wrote the fourth gospel:

http://www.thedisciplewhomjesusloved.com/

I feel it convincingly argues Lazarus was the one who wrote the gospel and also he was not an apostle.

[polonius]

Sorry I'm late to the party, but I ran across this website that goes in depth in arguing that Lazarus was the one who wrote the fourth gospel:

http://www.thedisciplewhomjesusloved.com/

I feels it convincing argues Lazarus was the one who wrote the gospel and also he was not an apostle.

RESPONSE:

Yes. And there is this evidence from scripture regarding the "beloved disciple.":

John 11:3 “3 So the sisters sent a message to Jesus,[a] “Lord, he whom you love is ill.�

John 11: 35 Jesus began to weep. 36 So the Jews said, “See how he loved him!� 3

John 18 26 When Jesus saw his mother and the disciple whom he loved standing beside her, he said to his mother, “Woman, here is your son.� 27 Then he said to the disciple, “Here is your mother.� And from that hour the disciple took her into his own home.

A special note on John 18-26:

Jesus gave the care of his mother to “the disciple he loved� And “from that hour the disciple took her into his own home.�

Lazarus lived in Bethany about a half hour walk from Jerusalem where Jesus was crucified. The Apostle John lived in Galilee, about a three days journey from Jerusalem, hardly reached within a hour.

There is nothing in John's Gospel identifying John the Evangelist as the disciple Jesus loved.

[otseng]

One common argument for John not specifying himself as the author of the fourth gospel was he was "humble" and did not want to call himself out. But, in the book of Revelation, John mentions himself 5 times:

Rev 1:1
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Rev 1:4
John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

Rev 1:9
I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 21:2
And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Rev 22:8
And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.

So, the argument that John was being humble as the author of the fourth gospel conflicts with the book of Revelation.

[polonius]

https://www.bibleodyssey.org/en/people/ ... -articles/


Which-John???? Of the New Testament works, only Revelation names its author explicitly as “John.� Revelation is written in much poorer Greek than the Gospel and letters are, and it even spells the name Jerusalem in Greek differently than the Gospel does. So it is extremely unlikely that the same person wrote all of these books. Some scholars therefore refer to the author of Revelation as “John the seer� or “John of Patmos� to distinguish him from the purported author of the Gospel and letters. Given that apocalyptic works were typically written pseudonymously in the names of earlier authorities, as though those individuals had predicted current and future events, the possibility must also be considered that Revelation was written by someone pretending to be John the apostle predicting the events of Nero’s time and thereafter.

[otseng]

it even spells the name Jerusalem in Greek differently than the Gospel does.

That is interesting.

In the fourth gospel, it uses Hierosolyma. In Revelation, it uses Ierousalēm. Looking back at the Hebrew, there are two ways Yĕruwshalaim is pronounced. That probably explains why there are two Greek versions of Jerusalem.

[otseng]

There are three events where only three of the disciples (Peter, James, and John) was with Jesus - raising of Jairus's daughter from the dead, Jesus's transfiguration, and the prayer at Gethsemane.

Mar 5:35-37 While he yet spake, there came from the ruler of the synagogue's [house certain] which said, Thy daughter is dead: why troublest thou the Master any further? 36 As soon as Jesus heard the word that was spoken, he saith unto the ruler of the synagogue, Be not afraid, only believe. 37 And he suffered no man to follow him, save Peter, and James, and John the brother of James.

Luk 9:28-29 And it came to pass about an eight days after these sayings, he took Peter and John and James, and went up into a mountain to pray. 29 And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment [was] white [and] glistering.

Mat 26:36-37
Then cometh Jesus with them unto a place called Gethsemane, and saith unto the disciples, Sit ye here, while I go and pray yonder. And he took with him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and began to be sorrowful and very heavy.

All three of these events are recorded in each of the synoptic gospels. However, none of these are mentioned in the fourth gospel. If John was one of the three chosen ones to participate at these major events, why did he not mention them if he wrote the fourth gospel?

Another major event was the raising of Lazarus from the dead. However, this event is only mentioned in the fourth gospel.

[otseng]

Regarding being a disciple and not being an apostle, in the first chapter of Acts, it is recorded there were 120 disciples gathered.

Act 1:15
And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)

So, it can be safe to estimate there were at least this many disciples during the final days of Jesus's ministry. So, it's entirely possible for Lazarus to be in this group and not be an apostle.

[brianbbs67]

Sorry I'm late to the party, but I ran across this website that goes in depth in arguing that Lazarus was the one who wrote the fourth gospel:

http://www.thedisciplewhomjesusloved.com/

I feels it convincing argues Lazarus was the one who wrote the gospel and also he was not an apostle.

I think you are right. All the evidence leads that way. He was a disciple, though.

[polonius]

Mark 14:51-52 New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
51 A certain young man was following him, wearing nothing but a linen cloth. They caught hold of him, 52 but he left the linen cloth and ran off naked.

This passage doesn’t really seem to have any significance unless the “Secret Mark� gospel is authentic. If so, then this youth was most probably Lazarus.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret_Gospel_of_Mark
The Secret Gospel of Mark or the Mystic Gospel of Mark[1] (Greek: τοῦ Μά�κου τὸ μυστικὸν ε�αγγέλιον, tou Markou to mystikon euangelion),[a][3] also the Longer Gospel of Mark,[4][5] is a putative longer and secret or mystic version of the Gospel of Mark. The gospel is mentioned exclusively in the Mar Saba letter, a document of disputed authenticity, which is said to be written by the Alexandrian Church Father Clement (c. 150–215 C.E.). This letter, in turn, is preserved only in photographs of a Greek handwritten copy seemingly transcribed in the eighteenth century into the endpapers of a seventeenth-century printed edition of the works of Ignatius of Antioch.[8][9][10]

"And they come into Bethany. And a certain woman whose brother had died was there. And, coming, she prostrated herself before Jesus and says to him, 'Son of David, have mercy on me.' But the disciples rebuked her. And Jesus, being angered, went off with her into the garden where the tomb was, and straightway a great cry was heard from the tomb. And going near, Jesus rolled away the stone from the door of the tomb. And straightaway, going in where the youth was, he stretched forth his hand and raised him, seizing his hand. But the youth, looking upon him, loved him and began to beseech him that he might be with him. And going out of the tomb, they came into the house of the youth, for he was rich. And after six days Jesus told him what to do, and in the evening the youth comes to him, wearing a linen cloth over his naked body. And he remained with him that night, for Jesus taught him the mystery of the Kingdom of God. And thence, arising, he returned to the other side of the Jordan."

Was this Larasus?

If this writing not authentic, what was the purpose of Mark’s reporting “51 A certain young man was following him, wearing nothing but a linen cloth. They caught hold of him, 52 but he left the linen cloth and ran off naked.�?

[otseng]

[Replying to post 59 by polonius]

I would tend to believe the The Secret Gospel of Mark is authentic. Some of the details of it ties up the narrative.

I've been wondering why wasn't Lazarus an apostle if Jesus really loved him. We have no problem accepting John as being "the disciple whom Jesus loved" and he was an apostle. Just looking at the Bible, it's not clear why. The Secret Gospel of Mark makes it clear that Lazarus was a youth. So, the reason Lazarus was not an apostle was because he was too young. It could also explain why Lazarus was not mentioned in the other gospels. Yes, the other story of someone being raised from the dead was a young girl. But, it was included because her father was a ruler of the synagogue.

In the gospels, most of the time the word linen is used is in the context of a burial cloth. The only other times are the young man wearing a linen cloth and the story of the rich man and Lazarus. If the young man is Lazarus, then it ties up all the references of linen in the gospels to death and resurrection.